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russian armor

Where are the Panzer IIIs?

28 Jul 2021, 17:24 PM
#61
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518




"Having pre 1943 tanks fight BP (and the Archer in its currenty form) isn't going to work well"

Its an arcade game, it can and will work, for example kv1s being able to challenge panthers, kv2s being able to beat panthers and tigers in coh2. We have examples. It isn't like this is completely out of the nature of the game

(Also plz gib panzer 3 M, sexiest german tank :V)


Yes CoH is not realistic but it trys to feel authentic. That is why a big tank like the Tiger, IS2 or Churchill can take a few shots while something like a Puma or Su 76 or T34/76 goes down rather quickly (also there were always people that felt stuff like Tiger beating IS2, Kv1 being able to challange Panther, etc. felt out of place. Those people would feel the same with Panzer 3 being too strong)

If Panzer 3, a tank half the weight of Panther, would be able to fill the role of the Panther then that would feel not authentic.

And if Panzer 3 were really to be buffed to Panther or Panzer 4 levels then why not simply make it Panzer 3 vs Shermans or Panzer 3 vs 2pdr Churchill in the first place? Would be more historically accurate with the same outcome


28 Jul 2021, 18:09 PM
#62
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

Just read that there were Flammen Panzer 3s used in Italy too

Lelic pls gib :hyper:
28 Jul 2021, 18:30 PM
#63
avatar of LordRommel
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 278 | Subs: 1

I. & II. Flamm-Kompanie, PzReg. 26, 26. PzDiv.
They saw saw heavy combat in 1943.

There is a combat report of the PzReg. 26 from the 28 Nov 1943:
German positions on the Sangro river were penetrated by commonwealth forces. The indian Gurkha rifles had pushed the 65. Infanterie-Division out of Mozzagrogna, a key village for the german defensive lines. The first elements of the 26. PzDiv arrived around the 27 Nov. The PzReg. 26 was ordered to counterattack Mozzagrogna with the 65. ID. The PzReg. 26 send in 5 Flammpanzer III, 3 Semovente 105/25 (Sturmgeschütz M43 mit 105/25 853(i)) and 3 Semovente 75 (Most likely Semovente 75/18). The german units were able to penetrate the commonwealth lines. When the Flammpanzer III of Feldwebel Bock, 1. Flamm-Kp./PzReg 26, get close to the Church where the commonwealth forces had established a forward HQ the Flammpanzer III was hit by a PIAT round. The tank bursted in flames. The turret was thrown away and the crew died. It marked the end of the counterattack. The germans retreated back to the new lines north of Mozzagrogna.
1 month later commonwealth forces were able to capture 1 (or 2) Flammenpanzer III at Orsoga, a small town north of Mozzagrogna.

So the Flammpanzer III saw some extensive use during the battle of the Sangro River.

In 1944 most of the remaining Flammpanzer III were merged into the II./PzReg 26. So Flammkompanie 1 and 2 were dissolved because of heavy loses of the 1943 combat. As far as i know some Flammpanzer III survived until the end of war as part of the 26. PzDiv.

Sources:
- 26. Panzer-Division, Ihr Werden und Einsatz 1942 bis 1945 by Georg Staiger
- Panzerwrecks 9, Italy 1 by Lee Archer and William Auerbach
- I mezzi corazzati Italiani della Guerra Civile 1943-1945 by Paolo Crippa
28 Jul 2021, 19:16 PM
#64
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2231 | Subs: 1

the only way to implement p3 is like the valentine, a T3,5 callin - Unit
29 Jul 2021, 13:46 PM
#65
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

the only way to implement p3 is like the valentine, a T3,5 callin - Unit

That's incredibly uncreative. You literally cannot think of a single way to implement a weaker tank into the stock roster? We have light tanks, we have medium tanks, God forbid we have a lighter medium tank.
29 Jul 2021, 15:09 PM
#66
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 692 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jul 2021, 13:46 PMTobis

That's incredibly uncreative. You literally cannot think of a single way to implement a weaker tank into the stock roster? We have light tanks, we have medium tanks, God forbid we have a lighter medium tank.


woah woah, I think we all agree there are certain boundaries that shouldn't be crossed? A slightly innovative type of unit? Listen to what you're saying man. It's well known that anything that isn't 3 Mainlines + 1MG -> Light Vehicle + ATGun -> Medium tank spam will lead to pure anarchy.
30 Jul 2021, 05:01 AM
#67
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3401 | Subs: 1


yes theay have no idea what gear was used in Africa. They just wanted a different scenario

What's the point of having a different scenario if you just import units from the other ones? Different terrain? Sure that's part of what I want for the game, but the units are much more important imo

If they get any more careless about history I think they are going to lose a few fans too. Probably less than they gain by just tossing in Uber units so I guess that's how it goes
30 Jul 2021, 10:47 AM
#68
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17748 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 16:21 PMmaritn


I'd love to have new units. But when your problem is the timeframe of the games, why complain about Panthers specifically?!

Oversaturation would be the word to insert here and I'm just using P5 as example.
Aren't you bored to death playing the very exact same units from game to game?

Good sequels stick to the core of gameplay while providing new tools to play with.
30 Jul 2021, 11:15 AM
#69
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2231 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jul 2021, 10:47 AMKatitof

Oversaturation would be the word to insert here and I'm just using P5 as example.
Aren't you bored to death playing the very exact same units from game to game?

Good sequels stick to the core of gameplay while providing new tools to play with.


And the first thing people would do in that case is asking "where are my tigers and panthers?"
30 Jul 2021, 18:09 PM
#70
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jul 2021, 13:46 PMTobis

That's incredibly uncreative. You literally cannot think of a single way to implement a weaker tank into the stock roster? We have light tanks, we have medium tanks, God forbid we have a lighter medium tank.

This, just make it the DAK medium tank, with the long 50mm gun that should have high penetration (like the puma) but low armor
Also, this could possibly open for a doctrinal short barrel Panzer IV medium tank with more armor and better AI performances but less penetration unless the heat shell ability is used



And the first thing people would do in that case is asking "where are my tigers and panthers?"


Wehrmacht main faction is in Italy for the whole war and has units of all periods, so the main faction will have Panthers. I just hope that DAK gets the Tiger as Tier 4 to keep up since Panthers were never in Africa, rather than having them both like in COH2
31 Jul 2021, 17:11 PM
#71
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1018



Late-War is as stale as the bag of chips I forgot about on top of the fridge for a month and then accidentally left open last night. Some Panzer III's and M3 Lee's would be so refreshing.


Playing CTA: Gates of Hell made me realize how interesting the early war armor situation was. However, if they go early war then the T34 becomes a badass on the field and the german armor will struggle somewhat, and what wehraboo wants that? Haha.
31 Jul 2021, 19:44 PM
#72
avatar of LordRommel
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 278 | Subs: 1

T-34?
Did i miss something?

Well.
To be honest: We dont have any information about the 2nd axis faction.
At the moment we dont even have a "final" layout for any faction.

So it is still possible to see the Panzer III ingame. With the StuG III Relic had already "half the model". Furthermore the model can be balanced in CoH terms. Early/mid game tank with decent anti tank potential (keep in mind: Panzer III scored some tank kills in Sicily and Italy against Shermans and Co.). For lategame the unit can be upgraded into a potential flamethrower tank or the 75mm gun tank. Both tanks would bring some potent late game soft counter options.
So at the end we have to wait.
I think there is still some time and some surprises for us - waiting in cover for a nasty surprise B-)
1 Aug 2021, 13:16 PM
#73
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 369

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.


Damn, I NEVER would have expected that you're a keyboard warrior too?! Lucky we have you to protect us from all the Nazi's.
2 Aug 2021, 13:41 PM
#74
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2231 | Subs: 1

i just watched a youtuber testing out the german gameplay in CoH3. He said that he misses the (o-tone) "iconic tiger" in the layout.

some dudes in the comments said "aren't there panthers anymore"



lol
18 Aug 2021, 02:32 AM
#75
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

By the time the allies invaded Italy, the only panzer III were:

Single Pz.III Ausf.K as battalion command tanks
A battalion of Pz.III Flamm flame tanks with 23.Panzer (25ish)
12 Pz.III Ausf.N with 90.Pz.Gren
An unknown number of Pz.III, Short and Long, with Fallchrim-Panzer Herman Goring.

For those interested, Luchs were deployed, 25 each, with the 2nd Pz.Div's recon battalion (western front) and 4th Pz.Div's recon battalion (Eastern front)
As well, I've seen hints of 5'Luchs' being allocated to Stu.Pz.Abt 216 for recon purposes (Served in Italy). No concrete allocation records though.
18 Aug 2021, 12:13 PM
#76
avatar of LordRommel
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 278 | Subs: 1

Stu.Pz.Abtl. 216 had Panzer II Ausf. F. Some tanks were destroyed at Anzio. They served as observation tanks.
Based on reports (Meldung zur Panzerlage) FschPzDiv. 'HG' had 14 short barreled and 21 long barreled 5cm KwK Panzer III in January 1944.
The 26. PzDiv listed 3 Panzer III with a short gun (no additional information) in January 1944 (Perhaps Stabskompanie, PzReg 26).
Based on a Panzermeldung of the Hrg. C the Italien front had 58 Panzer III in March 1945.
Conclusion: Panzer III served on the front until the end of war ;)
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