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russian armor

Where are the Panzer IIIs?

23 Jul 2021, 17:07 PM
#41
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.

Also, there is some hope, given how panther is NOT a stock tank first time EVER in CoH history.

FUCKING KEK
Pip
23 Jul 2021, 18:00 PM
#42
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.


Heh. Nothin personnel... Kraut...
23 Jul 2021, 19:15 PM
#43
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 18:00 PMPip


Heh. Nothin personnel... Kraut...

*unsheathes katana*
24 Jul 2021, 01:16 AM
#44
avatar of Tigertank987

Posts: 8

I'm all for a diverse array of vehicles and weapons to be added to the game.

That being said, they all ought to have a specific role or, at least, a specific timing with which they are strong and useful. A panzer III could easily be a slightly worse p4 and force a player to choose between a weaker tank now or a stronger tank later.

I'm also of the opinion that coh3 could be some kind of "ultimate" coh experience; a separate tuning pack and direct port of old factions could be worthwhile in certain cases (Panzer Elite, Soviets, OKW?) I'd also like to see some early war stuff. I'd love to see one or more factions that uses Dutch, Belgian, French, and British equipment/soldiers. You solve the tank technology issue by having different periods of action where the late war german faction cannot (at least in automatch) compete with the early war French faction.


I always thought the best thing for it to have a role would be a diverse amount of upgrades. Panzer III could start with short 75mm or older 50mm cannon. From there it could be upgraded with later war 50mm, side skirts, or maybe permanent APCR. An upgraded Panzer III could be roughly equal to a Pz. IV at the end of the day.
24 Jul 2021, 03:09 AM
#45
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 840 | Subs: 1

I really enjoy this aurgument. Considering CoH isnt a realistic gamewhat so ever. Panther can have stats of the P3 and P3 can have stats of the Panther.

The whole "where is unit X" is nothing more then a with for a fancy unit model, nothing more.

Considering we will have side armor (which is in general changes the whole tank combat) it really doesnt matter what units we get as long as the gameplay will be different.

Not to mention there are references in gamefiles from P3, to be more specific its MGs.

Also Relic is still hiding second axis faction, being DAK, so there are all the chances to see P3.
24 Jul 2021, 04:32 AM
#46
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Not to mention there are references in gamefiles from P3, to be more specific its MGs.


To be fair, there's also a partially functioning "Panzer III" in CoH2, but it uses the Panzer IV Ausf. F1 as a placeholder, and doesn't have a squad assigned which results in the AI being horribly broken if you attempt to give it any order. I think the All Units Mod has a working version of it, but still has no model, it's only a Panzer III as far as the unit name and stats.
28 Jul 2021, 09:44 AM
#47
avatar of maritn

Posts: 18

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.

Also, there is some hope, given how panther is NOT a stock tank first time EVER in CoH history.


Well, considering CoH1 & 2 played late in the war, using Panther as a stock tank was not inacurate. From Wikipedia:

Total production numbers:
P4: ~8500
P5: ~6000

in 1944:
P4: ~3100
P5: ~3800

So I don't get where the hate from having Panthers together with P4s as stock tanks comes from.
28 Jul 2021, 11:01 AM
#48
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 965

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 09:44 AMmaritn


Well, considering CoH1 & 2 played late in the war, using Panther as a stock tank was not inacurate. From Wikipedia:

Total production numbers:
P4: ~8500
P5: ~6000

in 1944:
P4: ~3100
P5: ~3800

So I don't get where the hate from having Panthers together with P4s as stock tanks comes from.
It's in every WW2 games community. Some people can't stand that Germans get better tanks.
28 Jul 2021, 12:16 PM
#49
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

It's in every WW2 games community. Some people can't stand that Germans get better tanks.


Sadly, developers love to share-in on that hitlers megalomania and obsession with panthers, tigers and KTs, so whole community has to pretend that WW2 didn't started before 1942.

Are you not fed up of getting the exact same thing, game to game, when there is a whole fucking LOT of interesting and unused generally in games armor?

Have you played MoW series? Steel Division? It is possible to make an interesting WW2 RTS without shoehorning muh wunderwaffe krupp stahl.
28 Jul 2021, 13:01 PM
#50
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1778 | Subs: 2

I would love to see a Panzer III, but the current unit roster works, that's why it is what it is.
28 Jul 2021, 13:01 PM
#51
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 965

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 12:16 PMKatitof


Sadly, developers love to share-in on that hitlers megalomania and obsession with panthers, tigers and KTs, so whole community has to pretend that WW2 didn't started before 1942.

Are you not fed up of getting the exact same thing, game to game, when there is a whole fucking LOT of interesting and unused generally in games armor?

Have you played MoW series? Steel Division? It is possible to make an interesting WW2 RTS without shoehorning muh wunderwaffe krupp stahl.
I shared that opinion. Then they introduced the Black Prince. Now I want the big German heavies since the game would tilt into the wrong direction otherwise. This is EXACTLY the power creep people warned about in the BP thread. As a matter of fact that is the reason why the BP destroys the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
28 Jul 2021, 14:36 PM
#52
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 12:16 PMKatitof

It is possible to make an interesting WW2 RTS without shoehorning muh wunderwaffe krupp stahl.


*or Prototype tanks that never saw service

In CoH2: UKF got Comet, Tulip rockets and AEC (also only 629 built), Crocodile AVRE (no more than 800 Croc built), USF gets Pershing and Calliope

In CoH1 USF has Pershing, M18 rifle and Sherman Crocodile of which 4 were built and they saw service first in early 1945 (but at least they saw service lol). UKF has Crocodile and AVRE (at the time of Normandy around 180 AVREs had been built, overall about 754)

In CoH3 USF also has Chaffee and Whizbang, both very rare (about 30 Whizbangs used) and early 1945 stuff

It is not only the Axis that get rare / late-war stuff
but sure ... getting Panther non-doc is "shoehorning muh wunderwaffe".

Your complaints about the Panther and your advocating for early war setting get even more funny when one considers that you defended the implementation of the Black Prince

And mentioning Steel Division while complaining about shoehorning of Tanks ... :bananadance:
28 Jul 2021, 15:28 PM
#53
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

I'm not specifically for BP, I'm for new units that we have not seen in the series yet or were not popularized by hollywood.

Again, there is a whole shitload of interesting hardware we've never seen, large caliber ATGs on halftrucks are one of these things and I love them already, more could be added if we ignored some of the late war stuff for once.

Tell me you wouldn't like to see M3 Lee for example. We're supposedly getting African campaign parts as well, so where are Lees? Why everything always needs to be Cromwells, P4s and Shermans etc?
28 Jul 2021, 15:37 PM
#54
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2067 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 15:28 PMKatitof
I'm not specifically for BP, I'm for new units that we have not seen in the series yet or were not popularized by hollywood.

Again, there is a whole shitload of interesting hardware we've never seen, large caliber ATGs on halftrucks are one of these things and I love them already, more could be added if we ignored some of the late war stuff for once.

Tell me you wouldn't like to see M3 Lee for example. We're supposedly getting African campaign parts as well, so where are Lees? Why everything always needs to be Cromwells, P4s and Shermans etc?


again, 90% are only interested in late war stuff.
If you implement other things they like "wtf this isnt ww2"
28 Jul 2021, 15:39 PM
#55
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



again, 90% are only interested in late war stuff.
If you implement other things they like "wtf this isnt ww2"


Source? Didn't the majority vote for Africa / Italy in a poll some years ago, meaning that most people don't necessarily want late war stuff
28 Jul 2021, 15:55 PM
#56
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 15:28 PMKatitof
I'm not specifically for BP, I'm for new units that we have not seen in the series yet or were not popularized by hollywood. [...] more could be added if we ignored some of the late war stuff for once.


So keep stuff from 1943 out of the game because we already saw it but keep prototypes from 1945 in it because we never saw them?

There is lots of late war stuff that the germans had (albeit often only in protoype from) that never was in CoH either. So you would be ok with that (or stuff like Nashorn replacing Stug) too?



The thing is, like Cardboard Tank said, there will be a PowerCreep. Having pre 1943 tanks fight BP (and the Archer in its currenty form) isn't going to work well

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 15:28 PMKatitof

Tell me you wouldn't like to see M3 Lee for example. We're supposedly getting African campaign parts as well, so where are Lees? Why everything always needs to be Cromwells, P4s and Shermans etc?



I myself would like to see M3 and others would like so too. But it would probably not work with Panther in Stock or Kinger Tiger avaible.

Same goes for Panzer III.

Keep the BP / Tiger II out of the game and then Panzer IIIs, M3 Lees and putting Panther behind a doc. choice would make sense
28 Jul 2021, 16:03 PM
#57
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2067 | Subs: 1



Source? Didn't the majority vote for Africa / Italy in a poll some years ago, meaning that most people don't necessarily want late war stuff


yes theay have no idea what gear was used in Africa. They just wanted a different scenario
28 Jul 2021, 16:21 PM
#58
avatar of maritn

Posts: 18

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 12:16 PMKatitof


Sadly, developers love to share-in on that hitlers megalomania and obsession with panthers, tigers and KTs, so whole community has to pretend that WW2 didn't started before 1942.

Are you not fed up of getting the exact same thing, game to game, when there is a whole fucking LOT of interesting and unused generally in games armor?

Have you played MoW series? Steel Division? It is possible to make an interesting WW2 RTS without shoehorning muh wunderwaffe krupp stahl.


I'd love to have new units. But when your problem is the timeframe of the games, why complain about Panthers specifically?!
28 Jul 2021, 16:34 PM
#59
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 475 | Subs: 1



So keep stuff from 1943 out of the game because we already saw it but keep prototypes from 1945 in it because we never saw them?

There is lots of late war stuff that the germans had (albeit often only in protoype from) that never was in CoH either. So you would be ok with that (or stuff like Nashorn replacing Stug) too?



The thing is, like Cardboard Tank said, there will be a PowerCreep. Having pre 1943 tanks fight BP (and the Archer in its currenty form) isn't going to work well




I myself would like to see M3 and others would like so too. But it would probably not work with Panther in Stock or Kinger Tiger avaible.

Same goes for Panzer III.

Keep the BP / Tiger II out of the game and then Panzer IIIs, M3 Lees and putting Panther behind a doc. choice would make sense



"Having pre 1943 tanks fight BP (and the Archer in its currenty form) isn't going to work well"

Its an arcade game, it can and will work, for example kv1s being able to challenge panthers, kv2s being able to beat panthers and tigers in coh2. We have examples. It isn't like this is completely out of the nature of the game

(Also plz gib panzer 3 M, sexiest german tank :V)
28 Jul 2021, 16:59 PM
#60
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 114




*snip*


To add on that, Its not like the COH series was ever serious about that level of realism.
I mean look at the damn JP4, its literally a Panther gun, yet it has same Pen as stug.

This alone makes the powercreep argument void.
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