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Black Prince Poll

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19 Jul 2021, 16:44 PM
#101
avatar of Stark

Posts: 623 | Subs: 1



Yes, generally we don't see a historical accuracy direction here. As we see campaign will give us a lot of freedom in choosing what we will do, probably similar in Arden Assault very small information how it truelly ended. Yet, at least there should be units for that time period. Technicly the campaign should work as a historical buffor and multiplayer is everything for everyone.

Yet, even from multiplayer aspect, the game would be a much better to play with both sides has similar level of units. As much as playing KT or Strumtiger brings a lot of fun but overall it's much better if we don't add those extra heavies and focus on equipment that both sides had in 1942-43.
19 Jul 2021, 16:46 PM
#102
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2021, 16:41 PMPip


V1s were used to attack ground targets. They're missiles. The Germans used them to attack Antwerp directly in the later stages of the war. I'm not sure how you're defining "Tactical capacity" precisely, and why you think that's somehow the same as something not actually being used in /any/ capacity.

Yes, they did use Infrared sights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zielger%C3%A4t_1229

The Sturmtiger was indeed used in combat. Please, do "get started", because I'm not sure if you've actually got any real argument there.




Please stop projecting.

Show me an instance where a German field officer called in a v1 strike an enemy formation while actively engaged, I’m not projecting anything, crying about historical accuracy in a video game is an oxymoron
Pip
19 Jul 2021, 16:47 PM
#103
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1546


Show me an instance where a German field officer called in a v1 strike an enemy formation while actively engaged.


No.

Is that supposed to be a joke?

I’m not projecting anything


Yes, you are. You're insisting others are arguing a lost cause, but your entirely argument is a faulty premise. You are clearly projecting.

Why are you arguing about a videogame yourself, if it is apparently unimportant?
19 Jul 2021, 16:49 PM
#104
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 965

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2021, 16:44 PMStark
Yet, even from multiplayer aspect, the game would be a much better to play with both sides has similar level of units. As much as playing KT or Strumtiger brings a lot of fun but overall it's much better if we don't add those extra heavies and focus on equipment that both sides had in 1942-43.


I think we are on the same boat here. The people in this thread do not seriously demand the Sturmtiger or Konigstiger to be in the game. They are talking about those since it shows how blatantly absurd the BP is.
19 Jul 2021, 17:27 PM
#105
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

we’re talking about the game that had Pershing’s in Normandy and panther rounds bouncing off Sherman’s


Panther rounds bouncing off Shermans is something that can happen at certain degrees but is mainly attributed to balance

Also Pershings in Normandy was in the first game. I doubt they had lots of money for research on their hands back then ... and again: They made it clear that they wan't to be more historical accurate this time. Don't see how the first game being historical inaccurate sometimes does affect that.

Also: Pershing was at least used in WW2, BP not

since coh needs to be historically accurate as possible, let’s add it to the game


Why is there suddenly so much straw here ?

Just because one doesn't want a non WW2 tank in a WW2 game doesn't mean that he wants a 100% accurate simulator game
19 Jul 2021, 17:39 PM
#106
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1



Why is there suddenly so much straw here ?

Just because one doesn't want a non WW2 tank in a WW2 game doesn't mean that he wants a 100% accurate simulator game


A tank produced before the end of WW2 is a WW2 tank. Just not one that saw combat.

The bob semple is a WW2 tank too.
19 Jul 2021, 17:52 PM
#107
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2021, 16:47 PMPip


No.

Is that supposed to be a joke?



Yes, you are. You're insisting others are arguing a lost cause, but your entirely argument is a faulty premise. You are clearly projecting.

Why are you arguing about a videogame yourself, if it is apparently unimportant?
because you just proved my point, I’ve already ready won this argument, this is simply for entertainment
19 Jul 2021, 17:54 PM
#108
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



Panther rounds bouncing off Shermans is something that can happen at certain degrees but is mainly attributed to balance

Also Pershings in Normandy was in the first game. I doubt they had lots of money for research on their hands back then ... and again: They made it clear that they wan't to be more historical accurate this time. Don't see how the first game being historical inaccurate sometimes does affect that.

Also: Pershing was at least used in WW2, BP not



Why is there suddenly so much straw here ?

Just because one doesn't want a non WW2 tank in a WW2 game doesn't mean that he wants a 100% accurate simulator game
yes panthers can bounce off Sherman’s at certain angles, but not at 100 meters, also it doesn’t take money to google search when the Pershing was used lmfao
19 Jul 2021, 17:58 PM
#109
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2



A tank produced before the end of WW2 is a WW2 tank. Just not one that saw combat.

The bob semple is a WW2 tank too.


Then let's push into the Company of Heroes any tank that was created during the Second World War: T-44, IS-3, IS-6, ZSU-37, OSA-76. I also want to add an AS-44 assault rifle, RPD-44. After all, there is no logical hole here, right? Just think of the weapon created during the period and used is the same as participation.
19 Jul 2021, 17:59 PM
#110
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



in fact, the addition of the Black Prince is tantamount to the addition of the T-64. Because these are two tanks not participating in the Second World War. Once again, taking a certain time period, you take its limitations. There are no Black Princes in WWII, In Operation Unthinkable? Yes, he might be there.
because the BP and the t64 are totally in the same league
19 Jul 2021, 18:02 PM
#111
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2

because the BP and the t64 are totally in the same league


It doesn't matter what league they are in, did they participate in the war? No, the discussion is closed. Only the fact of participation is important, the rest does not matter.
19 Jul 2021, 18:02 PM
#112
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



A tank produced before the end of WW2 is a WW2 tank. Just not one that saw combat.

The bob semple is a WW2 tank too.


So when will we get Centurion, T28, T32 the RPD Machine gun? Those were produced during WW2 too

With WW2 tanks I was refering to Tanks that did see action in WW2. No need for splitting hairs here
19 Jul 2021, 18:05 PM
#113
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



It doesn't matter what league they are in, did they participate in the war? No, the discussion is closed. Only the fact of participation is important, the rest does not matter.
doesn’t matter the BP is here to stay, relic isn’t going to nuke a unit that money and time was spent on because coh2.org, a small fraction of the community, threw a hissy fit
19 Jul 2021, 18:08 PM
#114
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

doesn’t matter the BP is here to stay, relic isn’t going to nuke a unit that money and time was spent on because coh2.org, a small fraction of the community, threw a hissy fit


They themselfs said that they want to be historical accurate and even aksed the community to send them sources and so on after seing the BP threads pop up on the Dev. site

Also don't act like creating the BP model was a huge endeavor. Maybe its purpose even was to test how people would react to non WW2 tanks being in CoH3
19 Jul 2021, 18:09 PM
#115
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2

doesn’t matter the BP is here to stay, relic isn’t going to nuke a unit that money and time was spent on because coh2.org, a small fraction of the community, threw a hissy fit


And to inflict one more reputational hit by declaring that historicity is important to us and then ignoring it.
Pip
19 Jul 2021, 18:13 PM
#116
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1546

because you just proved my point, I’ve already ready won this argument, this is simply for entertainment


Feel free to elaborate. Which point was that, exactly?

That I'm not interested in entertaining your childishly specific demand that I find an example of an "officer commanding the launch of a V1 at an enemy formation when they were already engaged"

You've already been provided an example of V1s being used "tactically", but you've decided it doesn't count for the absurdly specific reason that German infantry weren't actively shooting the target at the same time.

Furthermore: This fantasy scenario you've decided must be displayed has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the Black Prince was never used in World War III.


doesn’t matter the BP is here to stay, relic isn’t going to nuke a unit that money and time was spent on because coh2.org, a small fraction of the community, threw a hissy fit


Then why are you here crying about people expressing that they do not want it in the game? What's the point in you posting about it if it isnt ever going to change.

Not to mention the fact that you have absolutely no evidence that it's "only" CoH2.org users that don't want it in the game. I have no clue why you so desperately want this unit (That isnt even fully implemented, since the model is inaccurate) in the game.


Also don't act like creating the BP model was a huge endeavor. Maybe its purpose even was to test how people would react to non WW2 tanks being in CoH3


It's clearly not even a finished model, it's quite obviously just a prototype to test its implementation, since it isnt even accurate to the vehicle its trying to represent.


19 Jul 2021, 18:23 PM
#117
avatar of Grittle

Posts: 177

because you just proved my point, I’ve already ready won this argument, this is simply for entertainment


Tell me how you won. Because all I see is ad hominem. You either ignore counter arguments you can't refute or you just pivot into a different subject or "Oh I was pretending to be dumb haha" by just saying it doesn't matter.
19 Jul 2021, 18:40 PM
#118
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2021, 18:23 PMGrittle


Tell me how you won. Because all I see is ad hominem. You either ignore counter arguments you can't refute or you just pivot into a different subject or "Oh I was pretending to be dumb haha" by just saying it doesn't matter.
because no one can prove me wrong, you have it in your mind coh2 is about historical accuracy when it isn’t , the franchise is chock full of units that are rediculous and you come with stupid reasons why it should be included
19 Jul 2021, 18:41 PM
#119
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



And to inflict one more reputational hit by declaring that historicity is important to us and then ignoring it.
lmao historical accuracy is not why relics reputation took a hit
19 Jul 2021, 18:41 PM
#120
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

I know the right answer!!

The right answer is there will never be a right answer. People here will argue because they love to argue. They love to argue balance, historicalness, game play, "what if"s, etc.

The answer you will get (whether you think it is "right" or not) will be what Relic thinks is the best choice for them at the time. Probably what they think the players want. And they may get it wrong with regards to what current (and potential) players might want.

It isn't about historical. Or realistic. It is about marketing and sales. And maybe balance ... maybe.

If it has to have been in the world to be historical, lots of units fit. If it has to have been at the front, there are lots of units. They probably aren't even the ones that country used as the counter.

The US didn't use Calliopes for indirect fire, they massed more and heavier artillery than anyone else.

Sure the Luftwaffe had airstrikes, and many were effective, but they were almost completely missing on the western front.

And units didn't have unlimited supply and fuel. They had to retreat if running out, or have it brought to them at the front.

And it can't be balanced historically. The Tiger and KT and panthers galore are included because a large part of the games fanbase include wehraboos. They want their super kit. And because every game devolves to heavy tanks the allied players cry for heavies that weren't really needed in real life because so few encountered the German heavies. The whole "heavy" meta is mostly fantasy excused by only a handful of historical engagements.

So we will get what Relic thinks will make them the most money. Hopefully it will also be balanced, though they have an incentive to not make it so for a while so they can squeeze $ out of the P2W folks.

And other than that there will be no "right" answer.
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