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The state of Sturmtiger

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13 Aug 2021, 15:18 PM
#281
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 764



1. That 5 range is difference between 100% being spotted before firing vs fire in FoW.
2. I think they also nerfed vet bonus which gave ST 45 range WITH 45 sight

Don't feed the stupid, please. He will never understand, or he does this on purpose.

Also this might be the guy who thinks that only low levels get hit by ST and if he is the one, then he had 0 matches vs ST, because of absence of matches as Allies during 3 months
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198005939306
13 Aug 2021, 16:28 PM
#282
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Aug 2021, 13:10 PMZyllen


Did you lose units to a ST firing from the FOW? thats a low level mistake lad. Decent players can hear a ST coming and firing and dodge such an attack its still an utter horror to support weapons which s the main reason to use it.



Stormjager got rekt by the Sturmtiger in this match (https://youtu.be/1pD0qQ3k_8A?t=1030) and I wouldn't call his play low level. He outplayed his opponent and pulled some great moves to counter two Sturmtigers, even if it was all futile.
13 Aug 2021, 17:10 PM
#283
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889




Stormjager got rekt by the Sturmtiger in this match (https://youtu.be/1pD0qQ3k_8A?t=1030) and I wouldn't call his play low level. He outplayed his opponent and pulled some great moves to counter two Sturmtigers, even if it was all futile.

Damn, that match was stolen alright. He must be beyond pissed off.
15 Aug 2021, 14:23 PM
#284
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

this is a completely biased thread. u did not mention AVRE got a turret anywhere in ur comparison (please correct if i am wrong, but i didnt see any mention of the turret)...and y dont i see threads about nerf AVRE??? forum is completely ally biased.


Avre was mentioned various times in this thread beeing similar in wiping quality to ST, just not by op. Even its turret was mentioned as an advantage to be more responsive and to aim faster(->MMX). So your claims hold little water, various people pointed out that the Avre should be handled the same. Just stop your "biased" call-outs, the forum is able to talk about both sides. Its just your perception.
16 Aug 2021, 06:01 AM
#285
avatar of Bamper

Posts: 1



Avre was mentioned various times in this thread beeing similar in wiping quality to ST, just not by op. Even its turret was mentioned as an advantage to be more responsive and to aim faster(->MMX). So your claims hold little water, various people pointed out that the Avre should be handled the same. Just stop your "biased" call-outs, the forum is able to talk about both sides. Its just your perception.


This turret is not an advantage and a good player disables auto-attack so that the tank does not rotate the turret, because the turn of the turret is several times slower than the turn of the entire hull of the tank.

Secondly, I still do not understand why everyone forgets that the assault tiger appearing at 8 CP very quickly fills the veteran level, which allows him to attack anything, even if two destroyer tanks shoot at him - he will arrive, take a shot and leave without losing and half of the hitpoints. And it can still be kept on the battlefield with KT.

I guess it is not such a big problem in 1v1 and the balance team plays mostly in 1v1 and 2v2, but in 4v4 there are matches against 4x Sturtigers and this is not normal. 4 OKW players can have 8 call-in heavy tanks.
16 Aug 2021, 06:57 AM
#286
avatar of Gbpirate
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1065

I just gotta say I played against a competent player using the Sturmtiger into KT build and holy hell is it some toxic shit.

I fundamentally believe units like Sturmtiger and AVRE shouldn't be in the game. Reserve those kind of big explosions for off map abilities.
16 Aug 2021, 10:35 AM
#287
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 643

I just gotta say I played against a competent player using the Sturmtiger into KT build and holy hell is it some toxic shit.

I fundamentally believe units like Sturmtiger and AVRE shouldn't be in the game. Reserve those kind of big explosions for off map abilities.



The issue with the Sturmtiger/Avre as well as COH2 in general is that units do not fill a role. For example SturmTiger/Avre should be about smashing defenses. I would like to see both units capped to only killing 2 models and have the explosions pin infantry.

This would allow these units to maintain or even have the range extended as they would essentially be tank suppression platforms that can smash defenses (emplacements/bunkers) and assist in tank combat via damage/stun. (Not outright delete whole tanks from the game like the Sturmtiger which deletes everything)


I agree that the current design of these units should not be in the game.
16 Aug 2021, 23:05 PM
#288
17 Aug 2021, 00:23 AM
#289
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2

Airborne US pretty much hardcounters it in teamgames. However that could be because most people are mediocre at best at using it.
17 Aug 2021, 08:31 AM
#290
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191

it's fine

I have noticed a pattern that regardless of the balance issue being discussed at hand, in every single thread, you say that "it's fine, stop crying l2p" without ever elaborating how it is fine.
This is particulalry noticeable whenever something unbalanced on the axis side is being discussed, you don't ever provide anything constructive when you reply to a thread.
Why are you on this forum?
17 Aug 2021, 08:59 AM
#291
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2199 | Subs: 1


I have noticed a pattern that regardless of the balance issue being discussed at hand, in every single thread, you say that "it's fine, stop crying l2p" without ever elaborating how it is fine.
This is particulalry noticeable whenever something unbalanced on the axis side is being discussed, you don't ever provide anything constructive when you reply to a thread.
Why are you on this forum?


why should i discuss l2p issues without even a provided replay?
17 Aug 2021, 09:16 AM
#292
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2


I have noticed a pattern that regardless of the balance issue being discussed at hand, in every single thread, you say that "it's fine, stop crying l2p" without ever elaborating how it is fine.
This is particulalry noticeable whenever something unbalanced on the axis side is being discussed, you don't ever provide anything constructive when you reply to a thread.
Why are you on this forum?


This forum is worthless. It's populated by people who don't understand basic CoH gameplay but still want to discuss balance issues. That's fine but people who actually understand the game (like him) don't take it seriously. It's kinda like people debating coaching decisions in sports when they've never been involved in the sport in any relevant way. It's fun for them but the discussions are ultimately worthless.
17 Aug 2021, 09:27 AM
#293
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 764



why should i discuss l2p issues without even a provided replay?

there are at least 3 top level 1v1 replays in this thread, one of which is couple comments above
17 Aug 2021, 09:28 AM
#294
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3474 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2021, 09:16 AMGiaA


This forum is worthless. It's populated by people who don't understand basic CoH gameplay but still want to discuss balance issues. That's fine but people who actually understand the game (like him) don't take it seriously. It's kinda like people debating coaching decisions in sports when they've never been involved in the sport in any relevant way. It's fun for them but the discussions are ultimately worthless.


Why don't you show us evidence of Airborn hardcountering Sturmtiger instead of always using your superior posture in any thread you participate in.
17 Aug 2021, 10:00 AM
#296
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2



Since when 100+ rank in 1v1 counted as "understand the game?" :P

I'm usually on 20~40 rank when I do play (Not playing until ST nerf hits live server),

Current ST is one of the worst unit I ever seen in balance history that affects all mode 1v1 to 4v4.


I was just explaining why people like DonnieChan mock this forum. Me and you are an exception to the rule. So is Katitof btw who actually understands the game fairly well. However my statement holds true for 90% of people here.

Sturmtiger is absolutely broken. I was literally just saying that airborne in my experience hardcounters a Sturmtiger played by your average rank 100 4v4 player. That really doesn't say much about the general state of balance.

Edit: Didn't think your post was offensive.

Edit 2: DonnieChan definitely understands the game.
17 Aug 2021, 10:51 AM
#297
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2021, 09:16 AMGiaA


This forum is worthless. It's populated by people who don't understand basic CoH gameplay but still want to discuss balance issues. That's fine but people who actually understand the game (like him) don't take it seriously. It's kinda like people debating coaching decisions in sports when they've never been involved in the sport in any relevant way. It's fun for them but the discussions are ultimately worthless.


1) Worthless? Why are you here and posting stuff (atm 624 posts)? I hope you don't meant it that way.

2) A good strategy game offers fun at all skill levels of play. Everyone should have the right to discuss balance problems at his own skill level. l2p is just an arrogant and lazy excuse for not wanting to balance the game for all players, and that means leaving out over 90% of players. If a game for example is pretty good balanced in top100 but one faction falls of sharply in winrate below that ranks, than it is the fault of the game not the fault of the players that have to learn to play. The game is not overall balanced in that case. A lot of players are just casual gamers that have a family and a job and no time for practizing over and over again. Things get worse because this game is not very transparent about a lot of its game mechanics. Casual gamers payed money for this game too and have the right to have an pleasant experience if playing online at all skill levels.

Thx for taking this serious ;P
17 Aug 2021, 11:17 AM
#298
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2



1) Worthless? Why are you here and posting stuff (atm 624 posts)? I hope you don't meant it that way.

2) A good strategy game offers fun at all skill levels of play. Everyone should have the right to discuss balance problems at his own skill level. l2p is just an arrogant and lazy excuse for not wanting to balance the game for all players, and that means leaving out over 90% of players. If a game for example is pretty good balanced in top100 but one faction falls of sharply in winrate below that ranks, than it is the fault of the game not the fault of the players that have to learn to play. The game is not overall balanced in that case. A lot of players are just casual gamers that have a family and a job and no time for practizing over and over again. Things get worse because this game is not very transparent about a lot of its game mechanics. Casual gamers payed money for this game too and have the right to have an pleasant experience if playing online at all skill levels.

Thx for taking this serious ;P


1) As I said it's fun to debate the game. I'm just saying it's an end in itself. You can't derive any valuable information from 99% of debates on this forum.

2) I'm done debating this point for the millionth time. You logically can't balance the game for all players because unit and faction strength are completely dependant on the player if you assume non optimal play. There would be a million unresolvable conflicts as proven by this forum.
17 Aug 2021, 11:34 AM
#299
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2021, 11:17 AMGiaA


2) I'm done debating this point for the millionth time. You logically can't balance the game for all players because unit and faction strength are completely dependant on the player if you assume non optimal play. There would be a million unresolvable conflicts as proven by this forum.


Surely you can't do it to 100% but you have to take players seriously about units that just perform way too good at lower skill levels.

If you construct two factions for example:

1) Faction A: units are sturdy, expensive and pretty straight forward
2) Faction B: units are glass cannons, versatile and mobile, maybe a bit sneaky

I predict Faction B is good at toplevel play, maybe too good. Faction A will lead winrate at lower skill levels. Just don't make factions/units artifically like that.

ST is a good example of a unit which is way too good at lower skill levels. Game promotes blobbing at lower skill levels, scouting is less relevant. ST shoots out of nowhere scoring a lot of kills. Just don't make units like that.
17 Aug 2021, 12:27 PM
#300
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2199 | Subs: 1



l2p is just an arrogant and lazy excuse for not wanting to balance the game for all players



balance discussions are just a lazy excuse for not wanting to adapt yourself and question oneself's performance.

(provide a replay and ask people what you could've done better in that specific match e.g. something which could've been done a hundred times in the time you wrote your balance posts)
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