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Proposal regarding "Abandoned vehicles"

16 Jul 2021, 06:04 AM
#1
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

On the one had it would be a shame if it would be removed entirely on the other hand it often is just a game winning dice roll that says "Garden you" to one side (just had a game where my enemies light vehicle got abandoned two times in a row)

Why not make it so that abandonment can happen but only under special circumstances like with M10 or Sturmtiger but that it will happen 100% in those cases?

Vehicle gets killed by other Tank, AT gun or AT rifle --> 0% chance of abandon

Vehicle is using a ability that gives it some extra speed for some time and it hits a mine --> 100% chance of abdanon
16 Jul 2021, 06:12 AM
#2
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

I think it was too RNG dependent and that's why they removed it.

Which is kind of sad losing on a realistic feature but the competitive crowd get a bigger say I guess.
MMX
16 Jul 2021, 06:59 AM
#3
avatar of MMX

Posts: 842 | Subs: 1

for sp i'm all for abandon to return. for mp... not so much for obvious reasons, unless the mechanic itself is getting a major overhaul (e.g. a percentage of the unit's fuel/mp cost for recovery). but i'd rather have some of the minor criticals like gunner/ loader injured or pintle gunner killed to make a comeback. these are imho more easy to balance properly and not complete gamechangers in some situations.
16 Jul 2021, 07:00 AM
#4
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2

I noticed that the paratroopers cannot crash when parachuting. I understand why they did it, but for me such things make the game more insipid.
16 Jul 2021, 07:12 AM
#5
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1710

I noticed that the paratroopers cannot crash when parachuting. I understand why they did it, but for me such things make the game more insipid.


wow that got removed?

one worry is those 70 community members advising relic, how many are 1v1 players we know from here?

so many of them removed all the bright ideas in name of THEIR competitive prize money desires...

abandoned needs to come back for mp
16 Jul 2021, 07:20 AM
#6
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2021, 07:12 AMmrgame2


wow that got removed?

one worry is those 70 community members advising relic, how many are 1v1 players we know from here?

so many of them removed all the bright ideas in name of THEIR competitive prize money desires...

abandoned needs to come back for mp


A switch is enough to play a competitive game or play a regular game. On|off abandoned tanks, etc.
16 Jul 2021, 07:27 AM
#7
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1710



A switch is enough to play a competitive game or play a regular game. On|off abandoned tanks, etc.


nope it won't. remember coldtech? a switch means abandoned will not get any more tweaks
Pip
16 Jul 2021, 11:06 AM
#8
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1546

I can't say I'm sad to see abandons gone, if the alternative was to implement them the same way as in CoH2. (I.E; RNG garbage)

Though this is just a pre-alpha campaign slice, I expect things will work rather differently in Multiplayer. (its also possible many systems simply arent implemented yet.)
16 Jul 2021, 12:23 PM
#9
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 919

100% agree with this, do not fully remove, just make it trigger under specific circumstances

Same should BTW be for dropped weapon upgrades (for example if the squad suffered explosive or flame damage five seconds before death, it gets obliterated along with its weapon, but if the killing blows were from small arms, it will drop)
16 Jul 2021, 20:09 PM
#10
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Abandoned vehicles should have way more HP (a different HP pool that can't be repaired), it should take resources to recrew them -both repairs and mp/fuel- (at least for light tanks and heavier) and happen when only certain conditions are met. Still RNG but a much higher % than currently on COH2.

Rather than been a free gift it should be a fighting point.

Considering vehicles categories:

-Light vehicles: only with small arm, no cost to recrew.

-Light tanks and HT: only when snared/Infantry based AT. Still cost resources to recrew but only 25%

-Mediums and higher: cost between 25%/50%. Only triggers when the vehicle already has a critical effect (maybe only from rear shots)


Indirect fire nor offmap can't trigger abandoned vehicles.
16 Jul 2021, 20:58 PM
#11
avatar of akula

Posts: 589

I think it is sad that abandons are removed, this is the type of thing that makes a COH match exciting and unique. if you support your tanks/vehicles it is not that difficult to destroy the abandoned vehicle before the enemy can crew it. it punishes diving too deep if you aren't careful.
16 Jul 2021, 21:05 PM
#12
avatar of varunax

Posts: 208

I always felt it sort of lingered on the back of everyone's mind to not send in suicide vehicles in risk of them being captured. Otherwise, not feeling that strong with it one way or another. Abandons were incredibly rare anyways to the point where it really has no impact on the actual gameplay.
Pip
16 Jul 2021, 22:17 PM
#13
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1546

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2021, 20:58 PMakula
I think it is sad that abandons are removed, this is the type of thing that makes a COH match exciting and unique. if you support your tanks/vehicles it is not that difficult to destroy the abandoned vehicle before the enemy can crew it. it punishes diving too deep if you aren't careful.


Noo it doesn't. It rewards turtling as much as it "punishes" diving. It's far too swingy a mechanic to be RNG. The same function is already performed by the armour/accuracy system without adding yet another set of dicerolls.

RNG abandons are a terrible mechanic and I am not even slightly sad to see them go.
16 Jul 2021, 23:36 PM
#14
avatar of Flux

Posts: 81

If its considered too RNG, why not have AT infantry have an paid tech up ability to try and kill the vehicle crew when the vehicle is at say 5% HP with a long global cooldown for all these type of infantry.

You could even remove the RNG chance completely with the vehicle owner having a scuttle option to add counter play it or lose the vehicle. Having both sides needing to make an action.
17 Jul 2021, 06:14 AM
#15
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

Why is my idea considered to be too much RNG by some? (serious question)

like elchinos idea btw. Having to spend fuel / ammo to recerew might help fixing it too
17 Jul 2021, 06:40 AM
#16
avatar of Hikuran

Posts: 193

Just make captured enemy vehicles some kind of restricted.
Since they are crewed by foreign and untrained soldiers (regular Infantry, not tank crews), they will suffer a debuff, like slower fire rate, but can be upgrade to remove it (Manpower and Fuel, about 20% of original cost)
17 Jul 2021, 06:46 AM
#17
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2021, 06:40 AMHikuran
Just make captured enemy vehicles some kind of restricted.
Since they are crewed by foreign and untrained soldiers (regular Infantry, not tank crews), they will suffer a debuff, like slower fire rate, but can be upgrade to remove it (Manpower and Fuel, about 20% of original cost)


But then the problem of your enemy getting his tank / light vehicle abandoned in his territory after you dive in to kill it still remains

But yea. Could be added on top of that too
17 Jul 2021, 10:10 AM
#18
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2460 | Subs: 2

To add to Elchino's idea, it could be implemented that an abandoned vehicle has to be repaired first above a certain threshold, afterwards you need to pay resources to get the unit.
This would delay the time until the vehicle is captured. So if you lose the fight and your vehicle abandons, you have some more time for a counter push. Special abilities like 'repair critical' would also not be able to cheese the abandon by instantly repairing the engine.

It would also make sense logically. The vehicle got abandoned because the normal crew can't fix it. Therefore you need pios first to fix the critical damage before it can be recrewed again.

Maybe it should always be abandoned after being immobilized first. This would give more depth to immobilizing abilities like mines or whatever CoH3 will have. Pioneers and AT squads should also maybe have an ability to instantly destroy an abandoned vehicle
17 Jul 2021, 11:06 AM
#19
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3122 | Subs: 7

it should take resources to recrew them -both repairs and mp/fuel


Honestly, unless you make it cost 70-90% of the initial resource cost, being able to recrew enemy vehicles just swings the game too much for an RNG mechanic. Recrewing enemy vehicles on the spot and then have them perform regularly hardly makes sense logically/historically, it would take time to figure stuff out and get used to.

At worst, captured abandoned vehicles should also have significant combat penalties like -25% to -50% of everything (mobility, reload, accuracy, etc.). Again as a means to lessen the impact on a game.

But I'd rather just see recrewing removed in total. I think it would be better if abandoned vehicles simply couldn't be recrewed anymore but instead could be siphoned/salvaged by engineers for some extra resources (in CoH2 terms maybe 50 ammo and 30 fuel tops). Make the process take quite some time so the wreck has to be properly secured first. On the front lines this would still have the desired effect of creating a random and sudden extra objective to fight over and secure. If it happens behind your/enemy lines then you or the enemy are/is lucky, but a relatively small amount of resources isn't going to swing a game.
Pip
17 Jul 2021, 12:19 PM
#20
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1546



Honestly, unless you make it cost 70-90% of the initial resource cost, being able to recrew enemy vehicles just swings the game too much for an RNG mechanic. Recrewing enemy vehicles on the spot and then have them perform regularly hardly makes sense logically/historically, it would take time to figure stuff out and get used to.

At worst, captured abandoned vehicles should also have significant combat penalties like -25% to -50% of everything (mobility, reload, accuracy, etc.). Again as a means to lessen the impact on a game.

But I'd rather just see recrewing removed in total. I think it would be better if abandoned vehicles simply couldn't be recrewed anymore but instead could be siphoned/salvaged by engineers for some extra resources (in CoH2 terms maybe 50 ammo and 30 fuel tops). Make the process take quite some time so the wreck has to be properly secured first. On the front lines this would still have the desired effect of creating a random and sudden extra objective to fight over and secure. If it happens behind your/enemy lines then you or the enemy are/is lucky, but a relatively small amount of resources isn't going to swing a game.


Unsurprisingly; I totally agree.

I like the idea of replacing the recrewing of abandoned vehicles with the ability to salvage resources from them specifically... Though I'd still want to tie the "salvageable" status to some specific type of death (Snares, probably) rather than that also being an RNG mechanic.

Dependent on how many resources you might get from the wreck, this might still be a little too swingy though, and still has the problem of too severely punishing aggressive play, and rewarding turtling, y'know?


Incidentally: Perhaps this is an NDA deal, but are you and the rest of the Balans Teem part of this "roundtable" thing for CoH3? If so, I hope things are looking promising!

EDIT:
Why is my idea considered to be too much RNG by some? (serious question)


It isnt, people are referring to the current state of the Abandon mechanic.
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