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Is the Black Prince supposed to be some kind of easter egg?

14 Jul 2021, 21:17 PM
#41
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 19:40 PMnigo
American/UK units in soviet maps? NOTHING TO SEE HERE

Soviets in Bulge maps? NOTHING TO SEE HERE

Soviets + Western Allies playing together? NOTHING TO SEE HERE

JADGTIGER? NOTHING TO SEE HERE



CHURCHILL with a 17 pounder? OMG KILL RELIC NOW


Wunderwaffe ist NUR fur Fatherland!
14 Jul 2021, 21:18 PM
#42
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 21:17 PMKatitof


Wunderwaffe ist NUR fur Fatherland!


People would be upset too if Axis would get Maus
14 Jul 2021, 21:22 PM
#43
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8



People would be upset too if Axis would get Maus

Why they weren't upset when some of the most obscure and irrelevant to the war units made it to the axis faction across 2 games?
Can we use Super Pershing then?
It was deployed to EU theater.
14 Jul 2021, 21:37 PM
#44
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 21:22 PMKatitof

Why they weren't upset when some of the most obscure and irrelevant to the war units made it to the axis faction across 2 games?


I already told you that Puma and Ostwind were used. And again. I am not happy with Ostwind being used in CoH2 but we can't change that but we can still influence the Black Prince. Also a very rare tank that saw combat is still not the same as a very rare tank that never saw combat.

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 21:22 PMKatitof

Can we use Super Pershing then?
It was deployed to EU theater.


I would be 1000x more ok with the Super Pershing than I am with the BP because the Super Pershing actually saw action. But even the Super Pershing only came around in late April of 1945 and saw action only twice in Northern Germany (for comparison's sake: The obscure and irrelevant Sturmtiger first saw action in August of 44') and thus has no buisness being in a game set in Italy (of early 45/late44). And before you bring it up: I also don't want no Tiger II for the Italy front either
Pip
14 Jul 2021, 22:06 PM
#45
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1579

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 21:22 PMKatitof

Why they weren't upset when some of the most obscure and irrelevant to the war units made it to the axis faction across 2 games?
Can we use Super Pershing then?
It was deployed to EU theater.


"Obscure/Irrelevant" != "was literally never used".

Please stop with this absurd false equivalency.
14 Jul 2021, 22:19 PM
#46
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 796

Wirbelwind was an absolute piece of trash in COH 1, I am glad they replaced it with Ostwinds and kept it out of COH 2. I want the target dead not suppressed damnit.
14 Jul 2021, 22:21 PM
#47
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

Wirbelwind was an absolute piece of trash in COH 1, I am glad they replaced it with Ostwinds and kept it out of COH 2. I want the target dead not suppressed damnit.


Well ... they also could have simply buffed Wirbel : P (or introduce Mobelwagen)
AA Quad on the M5 also acts different to the one in CoH2
14 Jul 2021, 22:23 PM
#48
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 796



Well ... they also could have simply buffed Wirbel : P
AA Quad on the M5 also acts different to the one in CoH2

Yeah I've seen that one literally mowing ppl down and matching retreat speeds np and still mowing ppl down np. Concerning.

I do hope the BP isn't some counter everything unit, esp with that gun. The wording in the description makes it sound like it does.
14 Jul 2021, 23:42 PM
#49
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 890

- old Infrared HT and old Valentine giving some kind of alien technology seeing enemy units through all kind of obstacles (in reality the HT was just a nightvision tool)
- artillery flares letting you see units behind enemy lines outside your vision (in reality they just lightend a battlefield at night)
- infantry charging frontally with cumbersome AT weapons at a tank just to stop for a second and to fully unload with perfect accuracy (who would have done something that stupid in reality?)

I will stop here, there is more. Black Prince or not, it doesn't matter. The main thing is that it is balanced and hopefully less buggy than CoH2 eight years after release (bug splash, disconnects, missing commanders in game, units that don't react anymore, single soldiers running over the battlefield while the rest of the squad chills out at your base...). That are the things I'm concerned about.
15 Jul 2021, 02:42 AM
#50
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 944

I kind of have to agree with this sentiment; the "black prince" tank really doesn't fit in the game, and opens up a lot of really strange things to be added.

Wikipedia claims that there were 6 prototypes built, with the earliest completed in May 1945; definitely after the Italian campaign, and also just after the end of the war. The problem is, historically, the project was cancelled because of the success of the Centurion tank, which again according to wiki:
Six prototypes arrived in Belgium less than a month after the war in Europe ended in May 1945


That's quite a coincidence; the same number of prototypes built, completion within the same month, and even being shipped to Belgium (which is further than the BP got). So does that mean the Centurion is a valid tank to add? I wouldn't say so - it was far better than any other WW2-era tank (that served, anyway), and continued to serve until 1972, at which point every vehicle in the game was severely outdated.

Then there's other tanks as well, that existed to some degree or another:
  • Maus (2 prototypes in 1944)
  • possibly the E-100 (incomplete chassis in 1944)
  • the Panther F (several turrets made in 1944, none tanks actually completed)
  • IS-3 (reportedly saw combat, was present in the Sept '45 victory parade)
  • possibly the T28/T95 heavy TD (aug '45 might be too late)
  • possibly the Tortoise A39 (post-war, '45)


etc....

My preference would be to stick with vehicles that existed and saw combat, even if they were incredibly rare.
15 Jul 2021, 07:44 AM
#51
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

- old Infrared HT and old Valentine giving some kind of alien technology seeing enemy units through all kind of obstacles (in reality the HT was just a nightvision tool)
- artillery flares letting you see units behind enemy lines outside your vision (in reality they just lightend a battlefield at night)
- infantry charging frontally with cumbersome AT weapons at a tank just to stop for a second and to fully unload with perfect accuracy (who would have done something that stupid in reality?)


There is a difference between taking something that did exist and was used and giving it a slightly unrealistic ability and and implementing a tank that was never used.Of course Infrared HT did have no Map Hack in Real life and of Course Artillery flares did not broadcast the stuff that was going on behind enemy lines to their commanders but you know what? That is because it is a game. How do you want to implement Infra Red / Night Vision properly? How to you want to implement flares properly? I am pretty sure that the 222 had no special training for hearing Infantry throught bushes either or that no Red Smoke was Dropped before Artillery was fired. But those are small inaccuracies that are necessary due to gameplay. What is not necessary is implementing a tank that was never used

Also infantry reloading its AT weapons during battle is literally the same as a tank being in game that never saw action? Lol ok ...
15 Jul 2021, 07:57 AM
#52
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1936 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 19:40 PMnigo
American/UK units in soviet maps? NOTHING TO SEE HERE

Soviets in Bulge maps? NOTHING TO SEE HERE

Soviets + Western Allies playing together? NOTHING TO SEE HERE

JADGTIGER? NOTHING TO SEE HERE



CHURCHILL with a 17 pounder? OMG KILL RELIC NOW


An interesting point, Britain and the USSR were seriously discussing about sending a British Expeditionary Force to Murmansk for a joint operation against Germany in Norway. Free France, discussing allied actions between the USSR, chose between an infantry unit or an air unit. Aviation was chosen.
15 Jul 2021, 08:00 AM
#53
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1936 | Subs: 2

Why not, for example, take Möbelwagen (Sd.Kfz. 161/3) instead of Wirbelwind, for a change. A small number of Sd.Kfz. 161/3 ended up in Italy, here they had the 26th and 29th Panzer and 90th Panzergrenadier Divisions (90th received four Möbelwagen and four Wirbelwind)
15 Jul 2021, 08:07 AM
#54
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

Why not, for example, take Möbelwagen (Sd.Kfz. 161/3) instead of Wirbelwind, for a change. A small number of Sd.Kfz. 161/3 ended up in Italy, here they had the 26th and 29th Panzer and 90th Panzergrenadier Divisions (received four Möbelwagen and four Wirbelwind)


I would prefer the Mobelwagen too. Something new for a change. But at least nice to hear that Wirbel was used in Italy. But I think we won't get one (also because it would look kinda strange to see a unprotected crew (when the sides are down) that is just sitting on a Pz 4 chassis survive multiple tank rounds; I would like it if unprotectet tank crews like Marder, Su 76, or Mobel would take at least a bit of damage)
15 Jul 2021, 08:11 AM
#55
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1936 | Subs: 2



I would prefer the Mobelwagen too. Something new for a change. But at least nice to hear that Wirbel was used in Italy. But I think we won't get one (also because it would look kinda strange to see a unprotected crew that is just sitting on a Pz 4 chassis survive multiple tank rounds; I would like it if unprotectet tank crews like Marder, Su 76, or Mobel could take at least a bit of damage)


Well, I think the question with an open crew is a question of balance. The crew of the 37-mm anti-aircraft gun in the HQ can survive a direct hit from a B-4, or OKW AA half-track.
15 Jul 2021, 08:21 AM
#56
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1936 | Subs: 2

Or, for example, the Flakpanzer 38 (t), which were actively used in Italy in 1944. 36 Flakpanzer 38 (t) were sent to Italy, equipping the air defense platoons of the 26th Panzer, as well as the 29th and 90th Panzergrenadier divisions
15 Jul 2021, 08:44 AM
#57
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



Well, I think the question with an open crew is a question of balance. The crew of the 37-mm anti-aircraft gun in the HQ can survive a direct hit from a B-4, or OKW AA half-track.


Guess you are right. But it still would feel strange (probably because the Mobel would actually be on the front and thus be seen by me while I usually don't look at my HQ and it also usally doesn't get fired at)

Edit: just found pictures that showed Mobel with just one side of its armor (or even just parts of the front armor) down and also it having those protection shields for its AA gun. When I wrote my inital comment about the Mobel I assumed that they didn't use those protection shields.

Why not implement Mobel and make it and 360° AA gun but make it like a Stug for Anti infantry?

Mobel with front hatch open


15 Jul 2021, 09:39 AM
#58
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 704

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 18:01 PMButcher
If they are so proud in announcing a new theatre of war, they should only include units from that theatre. Black Prince and Königstiger don't belong there.

Chaffee was produced 1944-1945. So it does not fit as well.

If Relic thinks that there is a place for Black Prince, then be it, Although I liked vanilla Churchill more. Black Price feels like a slow panther.
15 Jul 2021, 09:45 AM
#59
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518


Chaffee was produced 1944-1945. So it does not fit as well.


But it was used. And it was also used in Italy. So it could fit ... unlike BP which will never fit


15 Jul 2021, 10:58 AM
#60
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Relic should just keep the vehicles that weren't used in Italy or NA for the future factions. It's not like it would be extra work since they would be used later, and it's just 2/3 vehicles that are out of place
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