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Elite Mod COH - Download and Changelog

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23 Jan 2014, 00:03 AM
#521
avatar of FritzX

Posts: 68

Permanently Banned
Damn me if i understand the point of this type of buff. I mean, why would ppl use this unit more often now with the damage buff? You just made it an uber-AC, but bare in mind that the pak doesn't miss like the 57 and there's no overdrive. 1 faust and a cloack shot its all you need to get rid of it.
I think its better to increase its cost but make it more resilient.

I thought this mod was about adding tactical options and enhance depth by making previously unattractive options more useful. An unit that goes down in a blink of an eye its not useful.
23 Jan 2014, 01:05 AM
#522
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jan 2014, 00:03 AMFritzX

I thought this mod was about adding tactical options and enhance depth by making previously unattractive options more useful. An unit that goes down in a blink of an eye its not useful.


- Uber AC? No

- Making it more resilient and more expensive is making it equal to an M8. Where are the more choices?

- So a jeep is not useful? A sniper is not useful? They can all go down in the eye of a blink. Argument invalid.
23 Jan 2014, 01:24 AM
#523
avatar of Darc Reaver

Posts: 194

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 23:09 PM12ocky


Nah that would make it an M8 but cheaper being able to reinforce (not being able to lay mines). It's meant to be squishy. Although at the time that it comes you can definitely have a pak. The trick is too use it as a clowncar though, drive it past the Pak.

Bringing it significantly earlier (5-10 seconds or 5 fuel wouldn't be a big problem, but more would be) in the game available would make it a PE AC, and we all know how toxic that is.

Lowering it's muni cost would make it spammable. Which probably would make it too good at overrunning enemy positions.

The only way to buff it is increase damage on the main gun. And preferably more focus on it's longer range effectiveness. Also some more consistency in cooldown and burst duration would be nice.

'So my design'
* Quad damage increased from 5 to 7
* Quad reload max decreased from 12s to 10s
* Quad now has a fire aim time of 0.2s (from 0)
* Quad Fire aim time modifier at long range from 2x to 1x, at short range from 0.1x to 1x
* Quad cooldown from 4-2s to 3.2-2.4s (normalized to average 2.8s because now it's has 0.2s fire aim time)
* Quad burst duration normalized from 3.5 - 2.5 to 3.25 - 2.75
* Quad accuracy lowered from 0.2/0.4/0.4 to 0.16/0.3/0.3
* Quad accuracy increment from 1.02 to 1.03
* Quad accuracy vs Heroic armor from 0.9x to 0.85x (clean ups on target table inconsistencies)
* Quad damage vs Sdkfz halftrack from 1x to 0.75x
* Quad penetration vs Puma from 0.02x to 0.04x

These are many changes but base dps it's about:
Short range: slighly less than +5%
Medium range: +5%
Long range: +12%

Notes:
*I did not include reload reduce. (which will make the dps higher in theory)
*I did not include accuracy increment buff which will make it higher (unchanged vs single targets, vs 4 man Grenadier squad about 3% better, significantly better vs compact blob.)

I doubt that increasing its damage will make it more viable (except for increasing its penetration values against light vehicles, which is a good idea imo).

The problem the M3 quad suffers from the most is the fact it has to fight against cloaked pak 38 and it only takes 2 shots to be taken down by one. The only options you'd have would be to make it barely survive 3 pak38 shots instead of 2, reduce its received accuracy against the pak38 or make rolled misses phase through the vehicle (worst idea imo).

Reason: in its current form you can't see where the first shot from a pak will come from because of its camouflage. Since its reload is pretty low the 2nd shell will likely hit the halftrack also before you can move it out of the pak's arc of fire. So if you run into a pak it's destroyed 99% of the time.

This makes the M3 a gamble against Wehrmacht compared to the sturdier m8.

Aaaaalso I think if you make it better damage wise it'll rape PE as it's already very strong against them.

On another note: LMG still needs small price reduction or slight buff to long range accuracy.

If you're going to buff the lmg consider the stats provided by terror's Zeal ability - the cooldown/reload/accuracy modifiers make grens with lmg42 rape machines already.
23 Jan 2014, 02:07 AM
#524
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

This makes the M3 a gamble against Wehrmacht compared to the sturdier m8.


Idd it is when rushed into their lines. But the gamble is relatively low cost aswell.

About the Pak: it's the same story as with rushing an M8 into the enemy: Try to search out the green cover point where it is. And then flank it or force it out with arty, or get a second halftrack and use that one as bait ... etc.
I have had succes doing this in the past even vs the likes of Aljaz.


I still pick an MP40 upgrade on my volks over an LMG on my Grens any day.
23 Jan 2014, 10:36 AM
#525
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jan 2014, 00:03 AMFritzX

I thought this mod was about adding tactical options and enhance depth by making previously unattractive options more useful. An unit that goes down in a blink of an eye its not useful.


Yeah, this isn't an argument. Lots of units can die in the blink of an eye.

Yes, the quad dies fast to a Pak. But it also builds quicker, and for less fuel. And trust me, a quad in the Whermacht base when there is no Pak around is much, much scarier than an M8.
23 Jan 2014, 11:04 AM
#526
avatar of Kiraye

Posts: 30

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 15:51 PMPepsi
Totally out of the thread.

@Kiraye Does a double simultaneous hit (from faust, tank, at) cause more damages than 1 after the other ? I feel like it does.



As previously have been stated it does not cause more damage. I think that you maybe experiencing that most light vehicles can be penetrated by regular rifles. Lets use the Halftrack for example: 10% chance to penetrate at all sides with full weapon damage (10, 12 or 15 depending on Axis infantry) and that if it took 2 penetrated rifle shots, it can go down to 2 faust shots. (Faust have greater damage multiplier vs Halftracks than M8s: 1.95x vs 1.3x)

23 Jan 2014, 12:13 PM
#527
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

But it also builds quicker


Lies, it's only cheaper.

M8 = 45s unit + 20s upgrade + 20s upgrade = 85s for fully upgraded M8

M3 = 40s unit + 45s upgrade = 85s for fully upgraded M3

But yea it is cheaper and you could use the gunner if you put squads inside before it starts upgrading.
23 Jan 2014, 13:00 PM
#528
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jan 2014, 12:13 PM12ocky


Lies, it's only cheaper.

M8 = 45s unit

M3 = 40s unit


It's still got a topgunner and transports squads, and you're more likely to send it into action faster as you're not obliged to wait for a skirts upgrade :P
23 Jan 2014, 18:53 PM
#529
avatar of Kiraye

Posts: 30

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jan 2014, 10:36 AMTommy


Yeah, this isn't an argument. Lots of units can die in the blink of an eye.

Yes, the quad dies fast to a Pak. But it also builds quicker, and for less fuel. And trust me, a quad in the Whermacht base when there is no Pak around is much, much scarier than an M8.


Actually a vanilla HT with a gunner IS scarier than an a Quad :) It even has better incremental accuracy than a Quad vs grouped infantry. (that's not factored in the following DPS sheets)

Vanilla 50.cal DPS:
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/140123/mh2b_dps_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

Quad DPS:
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/140123/quad_dps_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg


M8 with a 50cal upgrade is also slightly better DPS wise. (while the situation usually happens at short weapon range)
37mm DPS:
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/140123/grey_37mm_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
50cal DPS:
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/140123/grey_50cal_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

(these values are against non-elite infantry, while the DPS dealer is not moving, if it moves it is multiplied by 0.5x for each above value, than you get the DPS on the move)
23 Jan 2014, 21:44 PM
#530
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

Where did you get this Tool from?

And ye I always expected the vanilla gun to be better in certain cases due to the 1.5x damage modifier + better accuracy increment. I never knew it was this much though.

Anyways: all this combined puts me in right: Le Quad could use DPS buff.
23 Jan 2014, 21:49 PM
#531
avatar of Purlictor

Posts: 393

Is it possible to remove the 'hit mine' possibility for mine detonations? I honestly see no reason to keep it and can be game changing when it happens.
24 Jan 2014, 00:00 AM
#532
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

Is it possible to remove the 'hit mine' possibility for mine detonations? I honestly see no reason to keep it and can be game changing when it happens.


It does appear that light vehicles have a 5% chance of not getting a damaged engine when running over a mine at 80+% health. Could certainly change it (after the tourney) if people think it should be a guaranteed engine damage.
24 Jan 2014, 00:16 AM
#533
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

24 Jan 2014, 09:44 AM
#534
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

Well it just seems like another example of Relic sneaking in a bit of 'randomness' for the sake of it. It wouldn't be much of a buff.
24 Jan 2014, 10:15 AM
#535
avatar of Pepsi

Posts: 621 | Subs: 1

Yea fuck random.

Purli has a point tho.. I like to long range swipe mines with a clean sniper shoot is pretty easy.

On the other hand, with Purli's point, mines won't be sweeped by direct fire from rifles, snipers, armors, which is the way I sweep 80% of my mines already.. So revealing a mine without being able to sweep it properly with the engeneers (which are weak, and 3 men) will pretty much locked down the area to the ennemy's favor until the mine gets sweep or walked on.

In other words, it will be even harder to secure an area for both factions.
24 Jan 2014, 10:24 AM
#536
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jan 2014, 10:15 AMPepsi
Yea fuck random.

Purli has a point tho.. I like to long range swipe mines with a clean sniper shoot is pretty easy.

On the other hand, with Purli's point, mines won't be sweeped by direct fire from rifles, snipers, armors, which is the way I sweep 80% of my mines already.. So revealing a mine without being able to sweep it properly with the engeneers (which are weak, and 3 men) will pretty much locked down the area to the ennemy's favor until the mine gets sweep or walked on.

In other words, it will be even harder to secure an area for both factions.


I'm not sure I understand. If the 5% chance to not cause a damaged engine from a mine was removed, it would not affect your ability to shoot/destroy mines from a distance.
24 Jan 2014, 11:22 AM
#537
avatar of Pepsi

Posts: 621 | Subs: 1

I think Purli didn't want to mention the "5% chance to not cause a damaged engine". He meant that, right now, mines can be focused after being detected, by rifles or snipers for example.
24 Jan 2014, 12:20 PM
#538
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jan 2014, 11:22 AMPepsi
I think Purli didn't want to mention the "5% chance to not cause a damaged engine". He meant that, right now, mines can be focused after being detected, by rifles or snipers for example.


I'm pretty sure he actually ment that 5% :p
24 Jan 2014, 12:27 PM
#539
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jan 2014, 11:22 AMPepsi
I think Purli didn't want to mention the "5% chance to not cause a damaged engine". He meant that, right now, mines can be focused after being detected, by rifles or snipers for example.


He was talking about when a vehicle hits a mine, gets the 'Mine Hit' pop-up, but doesn't get a damaged engine. I don't know what you're talking about.
24 Jan 2014, 14:37 PM
#540
avatar of Pepsi

Posts: 621 | Subs: 1

My bad, I read "Mine detection" instead of "Mine detonation".
I'm outta here.
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