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Dealing with Allied Tank Destroyers

6 Jul 2021, 23:10 PM
#1
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 393

Lately I have either been having extremely bad luck or I need a better strategy to deal with Allied Tank Destroyers late game.

Firstly, I have been using 2 or 3 Sturmgeschutz III Ausf. as mainline AT, supported by PG's to stop flanking. Even after the StuG's are Vet level 3 - Allied tanks come out like the Comet and these StuG's just bounce off the front armour. As an example, I had 4 shots bounce off in a row against a Comet.

I find that I can't really delay for long enough to get a Panther, which is only marginally better at penetration anyway.

Additionally, the M36 seems to easily outrange and outgun my StuG's as they always seem to penetrate the front armour, in return I usually get a bounce or two when trying to engage them and lose the battle. Pak40 is ineffective late game as it will simply get bombarded into scrap or overrun by infantry.

Do I need to get an Elephant as the only means to fight back against a competent Allied player who kites with their TD's and stays at range?
6 Jul 2021, 23:18 PM
#2
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 840 | Subs: 1

StuGs aren't TD counters because they have less range then any other TDs. On open maps any half decent player will be able to kite StuGs.

As wehr you either go pak wall, Panther or elephant. As a more usual counters you could use pak43 or hull down, because hull down increases the range and StuG might be able to fight back.

But don't be like imperial dong with his StuG fetish. It's a good unit, but it's not an answer to everything nor it should have equal ground with other TDs
7 Jul 2021, 00:42 AM
#3
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2773

Get a screck blob.
7 Jul 2021, 03:21 AM
#4
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3266 | Subs: 1

Double pak 40 will do better then Stug against TDs. Especially against m36. Jacksons will kill stugs quite easily

Try to bait the Jackson into a mine or a shreck ambush or 2x pak 40. It's easier said than done, but that's how you do it. Definitely stop using stugs against it
7 Jul 2021, 07:27 AM
#5
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12585 | Subs: 1

7 Jul 2021, 07:37 AM
#6
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 393

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2021, 07:27 AMVipper
What mode?


All modes except 1v1.
7 Jul 2021, 07:37 AM
#7
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 393

Get a screck blob.


I've tried, they get rekt.
7 Jul 2021, 07:41 AM
#8
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12585 | Subs: 1



All modes except 1v1.
in 3vs3 and 4vs4 having at least 1 JT or Ele in the team helps.
7 Jul 2021, 07:42 AM
#9
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 393

Double pak 40 will do better then Stug against TDs. Especially against m36. Jacksons will kill stugs quite easily

Try to bait the Jackson into a mine or a shreck ambush or 2x pak 40. It's easier said than done, but that's how you do it. Definitely stop using stugs against it


Do you simply persevere when the Pak40's get bombarded with artillery? If the gun isn't destroyed, I can recrew for them to be bombarded again next time. Do you manage to micro around the arty? I used to like Pak38 in COH1 because it could cloak until 1st shot, but with the the new Russian recon abilities they are sitting ducks to artillery. Artillery, Land Mattress and Katyusha specialise in killing crewed weapons.
7 Jul 2021, 07:47 AM
#10
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 393

StuGs aren't TD counters because they have less range then any other TDs. On open maps any half decent player will be able to kite StuGs.

As wehr you either go pak wall, Panther or elephant. As a more usual counters you could use pak43 or hull down, because hull down increases the range and StuG might be able to fight back.

But don't be like imperial dong with his StuG fetish. It's a good unit, but it's not an answer to everything nor it should have equal ground with other TDs


Agreed, for 280/90 it does it job extremely well, at the end of the day I think I need to learn how to use Panther's. I just really wish when they designed this game they made StuG III tier 4 Tank Destroyer for 460/140 or whatever. I don't love the StuG, but it was the Germans best TD of WW2.
7 Jul 2021, 08:04 AM
#11
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2601 | Subs: 2

As others already said: PaK40 is the best bet. If your opponent has artillery you need to take the bleed. Don't blob your PaKs though.
Otherwise Panther. StuG can work but you need a better feeling when to push as you need to be ready to trade it anytime for an Allied TD. It is also good to take the first shot, so screening with infantry for an unscreened Jackson is very helpful. If you find one, you can push it with your StuG and trade some shots

Jacksons can't bounce anything apart from light vehicles though, so this seems to be a wrong memory.
7 Jul 2021, 08:12 AM
#12
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 781

regarding pak walls, its good in 1v1's and 2v2's but 3s and 4s its very risky as they tend to get annihilated by rocket arty. i would advise panthers, since with its health you can dive in, tank shots and maybe have a stug, pak40 and/or shreks to back it up.s
7 Jul 2021, 08:54 AM
#13
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3266 | Subs: 1


Do you simply persevere when the Pak40's get bombarded with artillery? If the gun isn't destroyed, I can recrew for them to be bombarded again next time. Do you manage to micro around the arty?

That's a risk for everyone with 2x AT guns, just try not to bunch them too too much. Like alphrum said, it works better in 1v1/2v2 when there's less artillery
7 Jul 2021, 13:18 PM
#14
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 708

I use packs and panther in 2v2. 2 AT guns is a decent place to be vs such composition. Some people like panther dives, but I think this is not the unit to gamble with, especially if you do that with more then 1, since you are often rushing into territory full of mainline infantry and mines.

Stug is nice, but a niche unit. You still can spam it and get value out of it, since it is much cheaper fuelwise then regular TD. JPIV is much better at killing TDs.



I've tried, they get rekt.

let me guess, by rocket arty and machineguns?
7 Jul 2021, 15:42 PM
#15
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

Tank Destroyer -> Counters tank

Everything other than tanks and MGs -> Counters Tank Destroyer

Simple enough for you?
7 Jul 2021, 17:45 PM
#16
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 320



Agreed, for 280/90 it does it job extremely well, at the end of the day I think I need to learn how to use Panther's. I just really wish when they designed this game they made StuG III tier 4 Tank Destroyer for 460/140 or whatever. I don't love the StuG, but it was the Germans best TD of WW2.


What commander do you like to use? That would help greatly depending on map and situation. Based of your original post you said 2-3 Stug with 2 PG for flanks. If those PG are upgraded with Shreks that is a large amount POP that is AT only. Based on that, I am guessing you have a more defensive/turtlish style of play. Maybe look for a commander that has AI loiter, it could possible for mass retreats so you can push and screen for your Stugs.

Another option is to keep 2 Stugs and tech up for Brumbar, unit is devestating vs USF and could force them to attack out of position to try and eliminate it.
7 Jul 2021, 19:03 PM
#17
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 487



I've tried, they get rekt.


You should try getting Ambush Camo on the Panzer Grenadiers. Use a Stug or something as bait while your Panzergrens sit there invisible waiting for the perfect time to lay down the beating. You would be surprised how that could quickly turn a game around especially if you haven't lost any armor of your own.
7 Jul 2021, 19:14 PM
#18
avatar of Densha Marx

Posts: 324

Tank Destroyer -> Counters tank

Everything other than tanks and MGs -> Counters Tank Destroyer

Simple enough for you?

Couldn't have offered more of an obnoxious tone even if you tried there, could you?

To OP: if you would like to keep trying with StuGs - which is a valid tactic and even one to be respected, as it's challenging - you can try using commander abilities to bolster them. Commanders with Riegel mines (including ones that get those via the 251 Observation Post ability), spotting scopes, infantry camouflage (for extending vision range for StuGs without that getting noticed), etc. You'd still need to disrupt vision for opposing TDs by forcing their infantry to retreat (and by using the StuG vet1 ability), but at least something to try.
7 Jul 2021, 22:43 PM
#19
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 393


Couldn't have offered more of an obnoxious tone even if you tried there, could you?

To OP: if you would like to keep trying with StuGs - which is a valid tactic and even one to be respected, as it's challenging - you can try using commander abilities to bolster them. Commanders with Riegel mines (including ones that get those via the 251 Observation Post ability), spotting scopes, infantry camouflage (for extending vision range for StuGs without that getting noticed), etc. You'd still need to disrupt vision for opposing TDs by forcing their infantry to retreat (and by using the StuG vet1 ability), but at least something to try.


Thanks for the tips. I actually tried Riegel mines yesterday and they work wonderfully well against TD's, especially when they get greedy and try chase you for a kill.
7 Jul 2021, 23:16 PM
#20
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 547



Thanks for the tips. I actually tried Riegel mines yesterday and they work wonderfully well against TD's, especially when they get greedy and try chase you for a kill.


Officers give 50 sight now, as well. Use that to your advantage. Luftwaffe officer can spot/screen and lay down smoke (free smoke drop).

The biggest challenge I've felt with some of my USF play recently is consistently sighting for the tds. With Pershing play if my m20 goes down it can get a little dicey as to what I run into on the front.
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