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Axis tank spam in teams

Does Axis save too much MP in team games?
Option Distribution Votes
21%
79%
Total votes: 42
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
22 Jun 2021, 03:25 AM
#1
avatar of AHandyDandyHotDog

Posts: 37

Am I the only one who thinks it's dumb Axis can spam so many tanks that are better than basically every Ally tank? Always win early game handily, than comes 3 panthers, some P4s, and a tiger ace mid game, completely steam rolling the game. I despise that "comeback" since it makes early game worthless. Why are Axis the ones spamming out tanks, isn't that the allies job???

Had a Churchill and two KV-1s against a panther and one OKW P4, it was our side that limped away, with the Churchill dead and slivers of health on the KV-1s. Panther was a little less than half health and the P4 almost dead. Don't know why their team mate with two panthers on the side didn't just finish my tanks off, he barely was paying attention.

Is there no way to increase costs or repair times or even build time in anyway? There has to be something done, because tanks don't suffer MP bleed, Axis can just lean on their tanks and amass a huge amount of manpower to offset any losses easily.
22 Jun 2021, 03:38 AM
#2
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1865

Your poll is somewhat flawed since tanks depend on fuel as much as they do MP. If you're getting rolled by massive amounts of tanks then you probably didn't have a good start to the game.
22 Jun 2021, 05:58 AM
#3
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 467

there is a pop efficiency issue, with Axis tanks and elite infantry being REALLY pop efficient, especially in the late game long range fight. This enables rocket arty spam

The answer, to my understanding, is just push up the pop cost of high power multi-purpose (add 2 to Panther/Brummbar) and make Land Mattress and Calliope non-doc to punish elite infantry spam. Yea, I will keep campaigning on rockets for everyone.

Or put a cap on rocket artillery count. I doubt people want that. And not all shock arty is equal.
22 Jun 2021, 08:43 AM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12176 | Subs: 1

there is a pop efficiency issue, with Axis tanks and elite infantry being REALLY pop efficient, especially in the late game long range fight. This enables rocket arty spam

The answer, to my understanding, is just push up the pop cost of high power multi-purpose (add 2 to Panther/Brummbar) and make Land Mattress and Calliope non-doc to punish elite infantry spam. Yea, I will keep campaigning on rockets for everyone.

Or put a cap on rocket artillery count. I doubt people want that. And not all shock arty is equal.

Neither Panther nor Brumbar are multi-purpose units.
Vaz
22 Jun 2021, 11:03 AM
#5
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1098

I raised this same concern worded differently not long ago, it's not just the tanks, just about everything axis can field is efficient and effective.
22 Jun 2021, 11:04 AM
#6
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163

pick british spam comet profit
22 Jun 2021, 11:26 AM
#7
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 743

Allies have extremely cost efficient TDs in the Firefly, SU-85 and especially M36. They can swiss cheese any axis tank out there frontally & effortlessly except for JP4 and Ele/JT. Panthers haven't been an issue since 2017 or so.
22 Jun 2021, 11:43 AM
#8
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1090

Bullshit. Sure axis have the lategame advantage, but as far as I know, the game doesn't start 30 minutes in. This ain't no "in medias res" game as far as I can tell. Are changes needed? Yes. Is this thread mind-numbing? Also yes.
22 Jun 2021, 13:31 PM
#9
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 535

there is a pop efficiency issue, with Axis tanks and elite infantry being REALLY pop efficient, especially in the late game long range fight. This enables rocket arty spam

The answer, to my understanding, is just push up the pop cost of high power multi-purpose (add 2 to Panther/Brummbar) and make Land Mattress and Calliope non-doc to punish elite infantry spam. Yea, I will keep campaigning on rockets for everyone.

Or put a cap on rocket artillery count. I doubt people want that. And not all shock arty is equal.


The balance team isn't perfect but after reading your comments about a multi purpose panther and brumbar and the b4 thread, I'm at least glad that you're not on it.
22 Jun 2021, 15:32 PM
#10
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1775 | Subs: 1



Had a Churchill and two KV-1s against a panther and one OKW P4,

because tanks don't suffer MP bleed, Axis can just lean on their tanks and amass a huge amount of manpower to offset any losses easily.


Well here is your problem. If you're measuring heavy infantry tanks against other tanks that have decent armor then of course you're going to be disappointed. They don't have the penetration to truly excel in tank battles and are high pop because of how durable they are which makes them super obnoxious en masse.

All tanks don't suffer MP bleed so it works both ways. A better counter example is looking at how T34 spam can be super efficient for the fuel and popcap cost if you trade well and don't throw them away. There isn't anything special about axis tanks that makes them more spamable.
22 Jun 2021, 15:58 PM
#11
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 467

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2021, 13:31 PMKoRneY


The balance team isn't perfect but after reading your comments about a multi purpose panther and brumbar and the b4 thread, I'm at least glad that you're not on it.


Updated post. Yea, i am wrong about the Panther and Brummbar issue.

Not the B-4s, i think that needs time to see if actually OP or just forcing a meta adjustment. Maybe increase rocket truck pop, spamming more than 2 becomes really abusive.
22 Jun 2021, 16:59 PM
#12
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3200 | Subs: 1

Allies have extremely cost efficient TDs in the Firefly, SU-85 and especially M36. They can swiss cheese any axis tank out there frontally & effortlessly except for JP4 and Ele/JT. Panthers haven't been an issue since 2017 or so.

"Effortlessly" lol
22 Jun 2021, 17:12 PM
#13
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 743


"Effortlessly" lol


What, range 40-50 tanks can hit your TDs at range 60? B-)
22 Jun 2021, 17:20 PM
#14
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3200 | Subs: 1


What, range 40-50 tanks can hit your TDs at range 60? B-)

Cause using tanks who's only protection is range is definitely effortless :rolleyes:
22 Jun 2021, 17:24 PM
#15
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 743


Cause using tanks who's only protection is range is definitely effortless :rolleyes:

:rolleyes::bananadance: Come on, don't argue over semantics. I don't call pressing U and making sure you don't get circle strafed 'effort'.
22 Jun 2021, 17:27 PM
#16
avatar of AHandyDandyHotDog

Posts: 37

One player sat his two panther on my sides VP, so I set a SU-85 to push it back a bit. He didn't bother moving it, but after like 8 shots my SU barely got it to below half health, which I think is completely not ok. Those same panthers constantly kill like three models of vetted cons with their main cannon shots, panthers are in no way not any good at AI.
27 Jun 2021, 20:38 PM
#18
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

Those same panthers constantly kill like three models of vetted cons with their main cannon shots, panthers are in no way not any good at AI.

You should dump your entire bank account on lottery tickets.
28 Jun 2021, 01:20 AM
#19
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

One player sat his two panther on my sides VP, so I set a SU-85 to push it back a bit. He didn't bother moving it, but after like 8 shots my SU barely got it to below half health, which I think is completely not ok. Those same panthers constantly kill like three models of vetted cons with their main cannon shots, panthers are in no way not any good at AI.

9 Jul 2021, 00:35 AM
#20
avatar of faad3e

Posts: 7

One player sat his two panther on my sides VP, so I set a SU-85 to push it back a bit. He didn't bother moving it, but after like 8 shots my SU barely got it to below half health, which I think is completely not ok. Those same panthers constantly kill like three models of vetted cons with their main cannon shots, panthers are in no way not any good at AI.


SU85 requires 6 shots to pen to kill a panther

SU85 has 220 penetration at far range

Chance to pen a 260 armor panther = 220/260*100 = 84%

I highly doubt you managed to miss or bounce 5 of your 8 shots, since the su85 is pretty accurate at long range, the odds are pretty low

And panthers dont constantly kill infantry, they are tank destroyers, not anti infantry tanks, and i cant remember the math exactly, but the chances of killing even 1 model are already really low.
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