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USF Pathfinders need to be balanced

21 Jun 2021, 21:31 PM
#21
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1

I use Pathfinders regularly, and imo they are fine at best. The only situation where they are OP is when I play vs someone who obviously doesnt know their weapon profile at all and stays as far away as possible from me.

The airborne paths can't hit a barn door if the enemy walks towards you for CQC, because the sniper rifles have an inverted profile: Maximum accuracy at maxrange, bad accuracy at short range. You can test that for yourself, I think even Wehr pio has a chance of winning if they just walk up.

The scoped carbine is bad at close range the normal carbine is not.

Pathfinder have quite good DPS close range and can defend in garrison until they stat dropping entities.

Actually their carbines should also change to have better DPS far and worse DPS close so that they have better synergy.
22 Jun 2021, 10:01 AM
#22
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3246 | Subs: 1

They're perfect to bleed your enemy early on when coupled with a riflesquad and work great even vs green cover. Then they're also map dependent and later on require a BAR to stay relevant in term of fighting.
22 Jun 2021, 11:30 AM
#23
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 1052

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2021, 10:01 AMEsxile
They're perfect to bleed your enemy early on when coupled with a riflesquad and work great even vs green cover. Then they're also map dependent and later on require a BAR to stay relevant in term of fighting.


Yeah, pathfinder is decent and can be invested in to gain more values. the only problem is that op go again bazooka pathfinder and somehow cant shut them down dispite holding 2/3 map control (include both fuel and both muni) for the entire fist haft of the game.
22 Jun 2021, 14:55 PM
#24
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1525


Read my comment abrove. Losing to 3 path zoo + 4 m8 scout is fuking funny. Those guys not even bother go full BARfinder and yet only RE, captain to cover them....

LOL OMG
22 Jun 2021, 15:46 PM
#25
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1776 | Subs: 1

My suggestions to balance Pathfinders and prevent people from abusing them:

- Pathfinders 1 CP; increase call-in cooldown to 100 sec.
- Beacon does only provide reinforcements for Airborne Rangers; no sight in FOW anymore (Pathfinders' sightrange is largely enough)
- Sniper rifles take both weapon slots (the possibility of easily upgrading them with double BARs or Zooks is insane)



Terrible suggestions.

1. Pathfinders were rarely used when they weren't 0 CP because it's really hard to fit in build orders otherwise. There is a reason why there has been a trend of lowering CPs for elite infantry or converting them to 0CP and adding upgrades for scaling. They already start on cooldown to prevent early map control and that's enough.

2. Beacons are hardly the problem. They are super fragile and easy to kill. I'd wager a guess that the VAST majority of players don't use beacons for FOW info unless they are a heavy tac map user like Luvnest. It's the same reason you don't see people bitching about Kubel Vet 1 ability or 251 Observation Outpost that do the same thing.

3. Barfinders can be a fun thing to mess around with and can result in some quick wipes if you get lucky with crits but they are still weapon pinatas which can be a downside. The sniper carbines as they are now aren't nearly good enough to justify taking up both weapon slots.

4. Any Pathfinder centric strategy is ALWAYS hamstrung by lack of snares. Use this to your advantage and if you can't then that means you are just getting outplayed generally.

Pip
22 Jun 2021, 15:56 PM
#26
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1503

I'm still of the opinion that units within commanders should not be "callins" at all, nor should they have any sort of CP cost. If they need to be delayed they should be tied to tech progression (like any non-doc unit) and/or have upgrades to stagger their power-level, as EtherealDragon has stated.

The only units that could arguably stay as "callin" units, rather than Buildable ones, are infiltrators and paratroopers, simply because they both rely on their ability to be instantly placed on the battlefield, and because I'm really not sure if they can be implemented in a different fashion.

I'd probably go so far as to say the same for /everything/ within a commander, the "CP" system is a bit daft, things would be much improved if it were scrapped and everything were tied to tech.
22 Jun 2021, 18:07 PM
#27
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1677

Yeah BARfinders are clearly a problem, not a very good design that a sniper unit can pickup a semiLMG
22 Jun 2021, 19:42 PM
#28
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 365 | Subs: 1

Found the Axis only player.
23 Jun 2021, 06:34 AM
#29
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 331

JLI can snipe model under 70% hp.
Pathfinder can with 40%.

Not to mention their carbin is not really synergy with scoped weapon as @Vipper mentioned.

If you lost to plain pathfinder spam, you are most likely to lose to opponent whatever he does.
23 Jun 2021, 07:00 AM
#30
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 160

JLI can snipe model under 70% hp.
Pathfinder can with 40%.

Not to mention their carbin is not really synergy with scoped weapon as @Vipper mentioned.

If you lost to plain pathfinder spam, you are most likely to lose to opponent whatever he does.

How about he lost to 3 path go full bazooka :D
23 Jun 2021, 07:49 AM
#31
avatar of GoforGiantsV3

Posts: 64

hmm... I think giving some buff can be able.

at now. Pathfinders get accuracy bonus 20% at v3. and no target size bonus at V0.

V1 : Sight range +5
V2 : Cooldown -20%. Target size -29%
V3 : gun range +5(not anti tank weapons). Accuracy +20%. Clock buffed as same as Sniper.

and Snipe Garand Accuracy is 34.5% to 92%.

So. I think these can be buffed some.
Snipe garande Accuracy : 34.5~92% -> 40%~92%

V0 : Target size bonus 5%(Same as paratroopers) ~ 9%(Same as Grenadiers)

V1 and V2 : Same.
V3 : Accuracy bonus increases 20% to 25%. I&R Pathfinders get barrage muni sale (20 for fake. 140 for real) to 0 for fake. 120 for real.
23 Jun 2021, 09:40 AM
#32
avatar of Kyle

Posts: 317

Yeah BARfinders are clearly a problem, not a very good design that a sniper unit can pickup a semiLMG


^
This guy!

Pathfinders alone are not a problem: the problem is that they are able to pick up BAR and then can vet up and rekt Ostheer.

I'm cool with their sniper rifle doesn't cost anything but please disabled their ability to grab BAR from weapon rack.

P/S: Can JLI picked up drop weapons like BAR / Bren on the ground?
23 Jun 2021, 09:47 AM
#33
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1

Imo unit of this type should designed as support/scout units and be balanced around the 240 price.

The critical kill mechanism could be turned into a timed ability to avoid ""critical kill blobs"
23 Jun 2021, 12:02 PM
#34
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 331

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2021, 09:40 AMKyle

P/S: Can JLI picked up drop weapons like BAR / Bren on the ground?


Yes they can. Up to 2 weapons.
23 Jun 2021, 12:08 PM
#35
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 331

Even tho Pathfinder & JLI do similar roles. You have to know the difference between them.

JLI: upgradeable one sniper rifle that can insta kill model with HP lower than 75%
Pathfinder: two sniper rifle(one for I&R) that can insta kill model with HP lower than 40%

Also sniper rifle's accuracy is much better for JLI.


JLI: 57.5%/92%/115%
Path: 34.5%/57.5%/92%

With Accuracy bonus against cover(90%) JLI is literally sniper itself against models in long range.
23 Jun 2021, 12:25 PM
#36
avatar of VonManteuffel

Posts: 77

I have never said anything about Pathfinder rifles, their weapon stats or their units profiles at all.

My only concern is Pathfinders arriving too early, they are too cheap and can easily replace riflemen with weapon upgrades, like in the replay.

The only purpose of the comparison was to show how Relic balanced Jägers. Jägers were overpowered because of arriving too early, beeing too cheap and too strong. Now they fit in a perfect role as a support recon light sniper unit. Great synergy with Volks. It would just be great, if Pathfinders were in a same support role and not as strog as mainline infantry.

But it's okay guys, I know this forum is mostly Allies biased and any substantial discussion is senseless. I just wanted to point at a balance issue.

Have a nice day abusing Pathfinders as weapon crews and upgrading them with BARs and Zooks!
MMX
23 Jun 2021, 12:39 PM
#37
avatar of MMX

Posts: 830 | Subs: 1


But it's okay guys, I know this forum is mostly Allies biased and any substantial discussion is senseless. I just wanted to point at a balance issue.

Have a nice day abusing Pathfinders as weapon crews and upgrading them with BARs and Zooks!


The thing is, trying to engage in a substantial discussion with people who mistake their lack of skill and/or perspective with balance issues is indeed senseless.
23 Jun 2021, 12:43 PM
#38
avatar of VonManteuffel

Posts: 77

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2021, 12:39 PMMMX


The thing is, trying to engage in a substantial discussion with people who mistake their lack of skill and/or perspective with balance issues is indeed senseless.


Like I said:
If Axis have something strong, maybe abusable: It's a balance issue.
If Allies have something strong, maybe abuseable: It's a l2p issue.

Cool!

If I haven't mentioned it yet, I was an alpha tester right from the beginning and I am a top 100 player. But you're maybe right, it's only my lack of skill....
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