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russian armor

The Stug E is still a terrible tank

20 Jun 2021, 21:23 PM
#1
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

The unit suffers from several factors that impact its viability.
The Stug E fires 75mm shells in a trajectory arc similar to the Brümmbar. Just like the Sturmpanzer IV, for it to be effective, it should be manually aimed with attack ground. However its performance is still poor. Even with proper manual aiming, which doesn't yield the same results as pinpointing targets for a Sturmpanzer IV, the difference with other kinds of anti infantry vehicles more comfortable to use is minimal, especially more versitile and turretted options.

Suggestion to make the Stug E more viable
Change the normal attack to a direct attack, with fast projectile, just like the Command Panzer IV projectile.
To give the option to use the Stug E as intended behind shotblockers and obstacles, provide the vehicle with an indirect fire barrage of identical range and stats to the normal attack, but the old trajectory arc, and an appropriately short cooldown.

This would give the Stug E the option of more easily engaging moving infantry without requiring the same amount of player imput a Sturmpanzer does, but also the ability to shoot behind sight blockers
20 Jun 2021, 22:19 PM
#2
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 180

I think it works great for its price, 260/75 8 pop i think.

great range, can shoot over hedges/ buildings auto if sighted, or manually, which you have to do a fair amount in the stug E to be effective.

can smoke as well now, letting you charge in with ASSgrens or OSTTR, smoked a few AT guns with it and shot them a few times to make them fall back

though the addition of a mg-42 is welcome, its a headscratcher for me, if anything i would like to be changed is the HEAT shell, make it fire HEAT shells at tanks for a set duration 10-15 secs, to do more than just stun or scare them off with a single shell, but apart from that Stug E is great
21 Jun 2021, 01:25 AM
#3
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 590

I think it works great for its price, 260/75 8 pop i think.

great range, can shoot over hedges/ buildings auto if sighted, or manually, which you have to do a fair amount in the stug E to be effective.

can smoke as well now, letting you charge in with ASSgrens or OSTTR, smoked a few AT guns with it and shot them a few times to make them fall back

though the addition of a mg-42 is welcome, its a headscratcher for me, if anything i would like to be changed is the HEAT shell, make it fire HEAT shells at tanks for a set duration 10-15 secs, to do more than just stun or scare them off with a single shell, but apart from that Stug E is great
wow its only 75 fuel i didnt know it was rthat cheap. that tank is awesome
21 Jun 2021, 01:56 AM
#4
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1865

wow its only 75 fuel i didnt know it was rthat cheap. that tank is awesome


One always seems a bit underwhelming. Two working together seem a lot better, but that could be said for most units in COH2. I'm not sure why anyone would compare it to a Brummbar that costs twice as much fuel.
21 Jun 2021, 05:13 AM
#5
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 493

Stug E comes earlier and a pair of them can easily do the job of a Brummbar at a longer, safer distance.
21 Jun 2021, 05:33 AM
#6
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1523

In a faction where you have Brums anything else is gonna feel like trash.
21 Jun 2021, 07:03 AM
#7
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163

rushing p4 is safer so no point
21 Jun 2021, 09:35 AM
#8
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2385 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 01:56 AMGrumpy


One always seems a bit underwhelming. Two working together seem a lot better, but that could be said for most units in COH2. I'm not sure why anyone would compare it to a Brummbar that costs twice as much fuel.

Because functionally they are the same unit type. They even work exactly the same.

I must say I can see OP's point about having to put a similar amount of micro into it compared to the Brummbar while getting much less out of it. On the other hand it is super cheap.
No real opiniom on it, but I have to say I have rarely seen it in game.
21 Jun 2021, 09:37 AM
#9
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

I tried to make the unit several times but it's clearly overshadowed by the brummbar. Get a P4 it's better. The unit has no space in any game mode at all.
21 Jun 2021, 18:30 PM
#10
avatar of faad3e

Posts: 7

id say its worth it on certain "lane" style team maps, where you cant really use a p4, due to shotblockers and stuff like that

range is pretty nice too, thats one big advantage vs a brummbar

but overall a p4 is just better

that being said, stug e is more fun than a p4
Pip
21 Jun 2021, 18:45 PM
#11
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1498


Because functionally they are the same unit type. They even work exactly the same.

I must say I can see OP's point about having to put a similar amount of micro into it compared to the Brummbar while getting much less out of it. On the other hand it is super cheap.
No real opiniom on it, but I have to say I have rarely seen it in game.


It'd be better off having a role more distinct to that of the Brummbar, honestly. OKW would likely love to have the STUG-E, but it's really surplus to requirement for OST in most cases.

21 Jun 2021, 20:15 PM
#12
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


Because functionally they are the same unit type. They even work exactly the same.

I must say I can see OP's point about having to put a similar amount of micro into it compared to the Brummbar while getting much less out of it. On the other hand it is super cheap.
No real opiniom on it, but I have to say I have rarely seen it in game.

The argument of it being cheap doesn't really justify it imo, especially because turretless tanks are always cheaper than turretted counterparts, and for much less you can obtain actually good turretted light vehicles with comparable if not sometimes better dps against infantry and a nice mobility.
For the same price, you can also get a nice M8 scott gun carrier that can actually deal better with team weapons and moving infantry, while having a turret and mobility, and their armor difference is irrelevant until the Stug 3 E reaches vet 2 and gets a bonus, but even then 180 armor will rarely make the Stug E bounce anything but base PIATS and Bazooka.

Not only that, but the small AOE and the slow projectile make manual aiming really inconsistent without very high accuracy.

I absolutely find the Command Panzer IV a much better AI option on top of being turretted, mobile, able to deal with light vehicles and having the Command aura. And it even got a smoke shell that can support against team weapons, and that's 100 fuel, so 25 more
21 Jun 2021, 20:23 PM
#13
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

I tried to make the unit several times but it's clearly overshadowed by the brummbar. Get a P4 it's better. The unit has no space in any game mode at all.

Came to the same exact conclusion. Crippled myself hoping to make the STUG E work for that smoke barrage, but got really underwhelming results. I don't think I'll touch it ever again unless it gets normal speed projectiles.
21 Jun 2021, 21:43 PM
#14
avatar of ltaustinpowers

Posts: 68 | Subs: 1

I might be in the minority here but the Stug E is perfectly fine for cost/performance ratio. They are cheap to build and don't even require T3 or T4 to be built.

I play mainly 3v3 and got to the front page with a stug e build not too long ago (Defensive Doctrine). You need to utilize its strengths and be quick with that reverse button. Honestly, I was super happy to hear about the smoke barrage ability that it was about to receive (and now has). The range on it is absurd but I am not going to complain about it. You can smoke barrage for FREE safely out of the range of at guns to disrupt enemy mgs, atgs, and in general, enemy vision. Especially in 3s, 2x stug e are great at managing allied blobs.

21 Jun 2021, 22:14 PM
#15
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 180

completely agree there, had a game today where i was just kiting penal PTRS blobs, just bled the enemy player, vets up damn quickly too.
whole lotta bang for buck if the situation is right for it.

but if it comes down to choice between stug E or a pz4 from T3, its more wise to go for pz4 in most situations.

regarding the shell arc, m8 scott has the same,that kicks ass. regarding CP pz4 vs stug E, pz4 is better overall, but more expensive and comes later, and takes higher popcap, 8 vs 12.

On a side note, it falls into the category like the SU-76, where it excels with micro.
and su-76 and stug E mirror each other, one is main AT/AI and has an AI/AT muni ability, if the Stug E's AT ability was buffed a tad, it would really kick ass
21 Jun 2021, 22:33 PM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12176 | Subs: 1

completely agree there, had a game today where i was just kiting penal PTRS blobs, just bled the enemy player, vets up damn quickly too.
whole lotta bang for buck if the situation is right for it.

but if it comes down to choice between stug E or a pz4 from T3, its more wise to go for pz4 in most situations.

regarding the shell arc, m8 scott has the same,that kicks ass. regarding CP pz4 vs stug E, pz4 is better overall, but more expensive and comes later, and takes higher popcap, 8 vs 12.

On a side note, it falls into the category like the SU-76, where it excels with micro.
and su-76 and stug E mirror each other, one is main AT/AI and has an AI/AT muni ability, if the Stug E's AT ability was buffed a tad, it would really kick ass

It need more that a "tad" since Stug-E's ability is crap, it does 40 damage, that is less than AT grenade.

7.5 cm KwK 37 L/24 having switchable munition could really help these units (for both the PzIV/Stug-E).

HE round and hollow charge for direct fire would make these unit more easy to use.

Hollow charge could work similar to KV-8s gun with lower damage and penetration better suited vs light tanks.




21 Jun 2021, 22:53 PM
#17
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 467

The Stug E is alright, but its in a faction with best-in-class AI tank guns. The P-4 is an infantry murdering beast, as is the Brummbar. Its just too weak for the faction. It does only 80 damage and has instant fall off, so it will basically never 1 shot a model, very much atypical for OST armor.

The Stug E has Fantastic AOE characteristics, but a slow reload and no insta-bleed value. Looks like a more recent AoE profile. It just needs 2-3 shots to murder a squad. The Brummbar has an even better AoE profile and full tank damage, so its hard to justify the Stug E.

The easiest way to improve it would be just increase base gun damage to 120, it has great mods already.

The HEAT shell is weird, a weak 40 damage perfect accuracy and pen on a 75mm snub nose... It may be worth swapping that out or outright removing while improving gun damage.
21 Jun 2021, 23:40 PM
#18
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1865


Because functionally they are the same unit type. They even work exactly the same.

I must say I can see OP's point about having to put a similar amount of micro into it compared to the Brummbar while getting much less out of it. On the other hand it is super cheap.
No real opiniom on it, but I have to say I have rarely seen it in game.


I tried it once after I had problems in a game against somebody that used them. That's when I discovered that just one is underwhelming. You haven't seen it in game because getting two of them significantly delays the Tiger or the much better Brummbar. Also, the commander has some of the same problems that Rifle Company has for the USF. The Stug E is just a minor variant of a bunch of other similar vehicles. Even worse, there's no great late game abilities that justify having the commander in the loadout. If the Light Artillery Barrage had it's cost increased to 180 and would reliably destroy B4's, then you would see this commander a lot more. Also, maybe give the Stug E a 50-60 range barrage so that it can fire at emplacements. Being able to destroy emplacements and B4's, and having a Tiger would make it competitive.
22 Jun 2021, 01:16 AM
#19
avatar of WhiteFlash
Senior Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 1265 | Subs: 1

I might be in the minority here but the Stug E is perfectly fine for cost/performance ratio. They are cheap to build and don't even require T3 or T4 to be built.

I play mainly 3v3 and got to the front page with a stug e build not too long ago (Defensive Doctrine). You need to utilize its strengths and be quick with that reverse button. Honestly, I was super happy to hear about the smoke barrage ability that it was about to receive (and now has). The range on it is absurd but I am not going to complain about it. You can smoke barrage for FREE safely out of the range of at guns to disrupt enemy mgs, atgs, and in general, enemy vision. Especially in 3s, 2x stug e are great at managing allied blobs.



+1
22 Jun 2021, 01:21 AM
#20
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5248

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 07:03 AMLMAO
rushing p4 is safer so no point

Sometimes it's the journey not just the victory.
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