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The devs did it again... Buffed B4 into the heaven

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MMX
21 Jun 2021, 16:39 PM
#121
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1



Meanwhile literally every single match is Soviet B4 cancer. Previous patch had more commander diversity than this patch.

Also from a design perspective they should be trying to make each Commander possibly Meta material. If something is considered meta they should bring up other commanders to match that same level of strength. Instead they half ass some commanders to make them "middle ground" intentionally causing commander imbalance and forcing different meta like how they forced the current B4 Meta or the OKW Jaeger Light Infantry meta some time ago.



give it some time. right now everyone and their dog may have jumped onto the b-4 bandwagon, but after the initial surge settles there will be more build diversity than before. i think the balance team did a decent job in drawing some of the meta commanders out of the spotlight and making others more viable in return. that arguably doesn't apply to all retouched commanders across all game modes, but overall i feel i have more options than before even though there are a couple of changes i don't agree with/don't go far enough imo.
21 Jun 2021, 19:08 PM
#122
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1


Wouldn't be that bad if they left in Counter Barrage but they removed Counter Barrage while making the B4 1 shot your LEFH.

Counter barrage did literally nothing to help you against a B4. You just call a barrage on it. It doesn't change firing positions, there was no reason to use CB against the B4/ML20
21 Jun 2021, 19:28 PM
#123
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241

give it less range at start. now it has no problem to reach any place on most maps..while sitting in perfect defense position.

you use planes? nbice idea ...when there wouldnt be the best AntiAir on allies side...
21 Jun 2021, 19:35 PM
#124
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889


Counter barrage did literally nothing to help you against a B4. You just call a barrage on it. It doesn't change firing positions, there was no reason to use CB against the B4/ML20

CB had an improved AOE damage profile that meant that the target gun was more likely to have crew knocked out in a hit rather than crew injured, and fewer hits overall to take the gun itself out.
21 Jun 2021, 20:41 PM
#125
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3475 | Subs: 1

Funny things is its more likely to be the same players that were abusing CB using now the B4 for fun.
21 Jun 2021, 21:58 PM
#126
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1


CB had an improved AOE damage profile that meant that the target gun was more likely to have crew knocked out in a hit rather than crew injured, and fewer hits overall to take the gun itself out.

Didn't think it was that significant. Iirc the kill radius was only like .2 or .3 larger in size. It definitely didn't hurt, but it's not a huge deal

Howitzers aren't supposed to reliably counter each other anyway. They CAN, but reliable counters are the off-maps. Which work just as well against B4 as anything else, regardless of how silly it is rn

A b4 "one-shotting" a lefh sounds like something that can only be common when there's several B4s. If they are limited to 1 (among other changes) I feel like RNG should still keep that rare
21 Jun 2021, 22:42 PM
#127
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486


Didn't think it was that significant. Iirc the kill radius was only like .2 or .3 larger in size. It definitely didn't hurt, but it's not a huge deal

Howitzers aren't supposed to reliably counter each other anyway. They CAN, but reliable counters are the off-maps. Which work just as well against B4 as anything else, regardless of how silly it is rn

A b4 "one-shotting" a lefh sounds like something that can only be common when there's several B4s. If they are limited to 1 (among other changes) I feel like RNG should still keep that rare


CB had 25% higher damage with the SAME AoE characteristics AND 1.25 FoW accuracy mod, vs 1.75 normally. The saturation numbers were dumb.

CB REALLY let the leFH snipe other howitzers. It was oppressive.
22 Jun 2021, 00:09 AM
#128
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905



Again, it takes 4-5 minutes (assuming ZERO grenades, mines, etc) of munitions income to counter ONE B4 which can be built every ~2 minutes

And it's only a net loss for Soviets, excluding area denial, if the B4 never hits anything. And even then, it dominates the Axis' attention and demands the total use of all of their munitions resources, meaning nothing is available for grenades or mines and so on.

Also, while normally I would ignore Katitof and advise everyone to do the same, here I'll simply note that balance decisions have routinely been made since the game's release in terms of not putting too many powerful abilities all on the same commander. For obvious reasons.


You can build a B4 every 2 minutes only if you can beat your opponent with a small army and never lose anything.

The things that you're complaining about have been the bane of UKF for years. Their howitzer counters are more expensive and have much longer cooldowns. The only one that is comparable is the off-map in advanced emplacements but the rest of that commander sucks. Assault plus Supremacy is 310 munitions and has something like a 5 minute cooldown so you can't keep up with even a single player making howitzers.
22 Jun 2021, 01:00 AM
#129
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2021, 00:09 AMGrumpy


You can build a B4 every 2 minutes only if you can beat your opponent with a small army and never lose anything.

The things that you're complaining about have been the bane of UKF for years. Their howitzer counters are more expensive and have much longer cooldowns. The only one that is comparable is the off-map in advanced emplacements but the rest of that commander sucks. Assault plus Supremacy is 310 munitions and has something like a 5 minute cooldown so you can't keep up with even a single player making howitzers.


yeah, it has been like that for UKF in years by now, and this is what happen when CB abuser have to actually think about counter indirect for like 4-5 days.

Assault + suppermacy is like 340 now. Otherwise if you have vet 1 officer it will be 310 or 285 with special weapon, Ro. arty + officer recon is 160 but very unreliable. Emplacement can offer a 260mu option but do i have to say anything about picking that commander ? Speaking of the officer and his recon, they just come to stock in like in haft a year, before that above combos are not event access-able for a single player.
22 Jun 2021, 01:03 AM
#130
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 278

Just axis players being braindead and sucking CB for too long :D
22 Jun 2021, 01:10 AM
#131
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1


CB had 25% higher damage with the SAME AoE characteristics AND 1.25 FoW accuracy mod, vs 1.75 normally. The saturation numbers were dumb.

CB REALLY let the leFH snipe other howitzers. It was oppressive.

Wow did not know about the FoW modifiers. That's just silly
22 Jun 2021, 01:28 AM
#132
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217


Wow did not know about the FoW modifiers. That's just silly


I mean pp talking about B1 1 shot lefh like it can land dead center hit while lefh with cb has been double tap sexton/priest if they dare to finish full barrage for age before this patch. All my years of suffering is finally worth it when i head that cb is going to be removed.
22 Jun 2021, 01:29 AM
#133
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2021, 01:03 AMtheekvn
Just axis players being braindead and sucking CB for too long :D


I play both Axis and Allies. The point that the Axis players could've made is that a viable on-map howitzer will force them into the same stale meta that Allied players have had to endure for years. It wasn't too bad if you played Soviets before they took the bombing run out of Mechanized, but it got bad even as Soviet after that. I'm not looking forward to autopicking Storm for the next 300 games because I see 7 B4 commanders in the 4 opponents loadouts every game.

I've made the suggestion a couple of times that howitzers should be given the same treatment as heavies, meaning a limit on them and possibly even a cooldown on building them. I hope that the balance team thinks about something like that instead of just nerfing the B4 and pretending everything is fine. As a point of reference, the balance team specifically made the Priest so that it could not be decrewed when Priest spam was a thing. They should've done that to all howitzers.
22 Jun 2021, 01:44 AM
#134
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 278

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2021, 01:29 AMGrumpy


I play both Axis and Allies. The point that the Axis players could've made is that a viable on-map howitzer will force them into the same stale meta that Allied players have had to endure for years. It wasn't too bad if you played Soviets before they took the bombing run out of Mechanized, but it got bad even as Soviet after that. I'm not looking forward to autopicking Storm for the next 300 games because I see 7 B4 commanders in the 4 opponents loadouts every game.

I've made the suggestion a couple of times that howitzers should be given the same treatment as heavies, meaning a limit on them and possibly even a cooldown on building them. I hope that the balance team thinks about something like that instead of just nerfing the B4 and pretending everything is fine. As a point of reference, the balance team specifically made the Priest so that it could not be decrewed when Priest spam was a thing. They should've done that to all howitzers.
.
- the thing is on arty war, Lefh alway got upper hand against every Alies Arty ( better scatter, shot per salvo, vet). Just use your mirco, sound and mini map to find their Arty.
- The reason everyone go for New B4 because how lovely it is in both old - current version. You cant stop people try and play with their RNG. Let it pass for 1 or 2 weeks to give a full picture of New B4.
22 Jun 2021, 01:45 AM
#135
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2021, 01:29 AMGrumpy


I play both Axis and Allies. The point that the Axis players could've made is that a viable on-map howitzer will force them into the same stale meta that Allied players have had to endure for years. It wasn't too bad if you played Soviets before they took the bombing run out of Mechanized, but it got bad even as Soviet after that. I'm not looking forward to autopicking Storm for the next 300 games because I see 7 B4 commanders in the 4 opponents loadouts every game.

I've made the suggestion a couple of times that howitzers should be given the same treatment as heavies, meaning a limit on them and possibly even a cooldown on building them. I hope that the balance team thinks about something like that instead of just nerfing the B4 and pretending everything is fine. As a point of reference, the balance team specifically made the Priest so that it could not be decrewed when Priest spam was a thing. They should've done that to all howitzers.


i will feel irony if it take 4-5 years of allies suffering without any care then just a couple of day of same experience for axis that they stat to working on a way out for both side. Still, i will say that all is worth it if there is an actual way out for both side, if not, at least i know that now the enemy have to go through the same stuff as i.
22 Jun 2021, 01:48 AM
#136
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 278

Not to mention vet 1 Smoke from ML-20 is waste of time. No body care, just throw it away please.
How about Vet 1 Lefh now can be New B4 with 10 shots-supression-lower damage-very accuracy ?. Why keep raging against 3 shots- supression-meh damage profile-RNGjeus, ?
22 Jun 2021, 02:09 AM
#137
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 630



i will feel irony if it take 4-5 years of allies suffering without any care then just a couple of day of same experience for axis that they stat to working on a way out for both side. Still, i will say that all is worth it if there is an actual way out for both side, if not, at least i know that now the enemy have to go through the same stuff as i.


yes. it is time for axis to suffer.
22 Jun 2021, 02:32 AM
#138
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2021, 02:09 AMKoRneY


yes. it is time for axis to suffer.


Nah, but maybe time for enough people to realize that arty needs to be toned down.

In games like Total Annihilation, you could have games with units either banned or limited. I think the game would be a lot more fun with limits on arty.
22 Jun 2021, 06:38 AM
#139
avatar of GGnore

Posts: 76

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jun 2021, 20:51 PMGrumpy


Thanks, I didn't realize Assault Arty would always get it. The Panzer Commander in Elite Armor also works but you have to get close to use the off-map arty as it it tied to the tank. Would be nice if you could put the commander on a Puma, then hunt Katy's and B4's.


It dont, scavange also fails to kill sometimes, has the target size bug been fixed ? Ive had two occasions where kt raketten and p4 all missed multiple shots on a decrewed b4
22 Jun 2021, 11:02 AM
#140
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 875

If there was a way to counter the B4 in a 3v3 or 4v4, it actually feels pretty good and made the doctrine useful. But they took away counter battery, so there is no counter except suiciding a tank.

In 1v1 or 2v2 it's probably better, but on a rectangular map with any kind of mine play you're not going to get it.

It's a game breaking design failure. Really no way to rework it again I think.

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