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The devs did it again... Buffed B4 into the heaven

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18 Jun 2021, 19:58 PM
#61
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

Relic moment. Cant wait to enter a slugfest and be unable to cap center on maps like faymon :)
18 Jun 2021, 21:03 PM
#62
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 632

Lefh wasn't a problem for soviets until recently, when their goto commander isu 152 + bombing run was gutted.

Main problem with b4 is still it's cooldown/refire time.
18 Jun 2021, 21:17 PM
#63
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2873 | Subs: 2

There will be / is a huge run on the B4 at the moment. The unit has always been kind of a community favourite because using it and hitting with it feels god damn satisfying. It just has not been competitive.
Naturally, if the rework promises a big gun that is actually usable everyone will go for it. The spam you see now might potentially vanish in a month (assuming the unit was balanced), just like Partisans were used for a couple of weeks after their rework before disappearing again.
18 Jun 2021, 21:50 PM
#64
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 394

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2021, 21:03 PMKoRneY
Lefh wasn't a problem for soviets until recently, when their goto commander isu 152 + bombing run was gutted.

Main problem with b4 is still it's cooldown/refire time.


Cooldown on the B4 is rendered totally irrelevant when the enemy makes 2 or 3 B4 in large team games.
18 Jun 2021, 21:50 PM
#65
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

i just used b4 vehicle shot on ostwind right in front of me.... 0 dmg at all perfect shot
18 Jun 2021, 22:07 PM
#66
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 632



Cooldown on the B4 is rendered totally irrelevant when the enemy makes 2 or 3 B4 in large team games.


That's pretty much the case for any arty piece but a b4 cooldown is much faster than ml20 or lefh on an individual level. It was like this the day they changed barrages to start their cooldown after firing...

Between size 1 (fixed)and fucked up cooldowns (not fixed) and now this (tbd).
19 Jun 2021, 16:51 PM
#67
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 765

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2021, 00:49 AMGrumpy

So you two want only opinions that agree with you on this thread? The comparison to the LEFH isn't off topic, as it is the most similar Axis unit. You've had about 3-4 years where you didn't have to worry about Soviet howitzers at all, so now it's the end of COH because you actually have to look at someone's loadout and think about picking a counter?

I did not said that. You asked irrelevant offtopic question and try to derail the discussion into Lefh vs B4. That is what called whataboutism.

If Lefh with counter barrage was broken does not mean that it is b4's turn to be broken.

Also B4 is nothing like Lefh. Priest is like lefh, Sexton is like Lefh, ML-20 is like Lefh.
Comparing b4 to lefh is like comparing shock troops to Obers and saying if Obers are overperforming then shocks should to, regardless of the fact that there are 2 more allied factions in the game, that do not have shock troops.

BTW I played 2.5 times more games as Allies then Axis and continue to do so. But I still play both, because it is more fun this way. I just one of those people who hate being on the receiving of grossly imbalance things.
19 Jun 2021, 20:15 PM
#68
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2759 | Subs: 4

There is seven axis commanders to destroy howitzers (5 wehr + 2 OKW). Seven! 2 clicks to get rid of 400mp 50 fuel.


While I would say that the addition of suppression was unnecessary, if you think the B4 is super OP now and you lose games vs B4 spam even though you geunuinely tryharded: you're bad and it's your own fault.

Doctrines counter other doctrines since 2013.

19 Jun 2021, 20:33 PM
#69
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 990 | Subs: 1

There is seven axis commanders to destroy howitzers (5 wehr + 2 OKW). Seven! 2 clicks to get rid of 400mp 50 fuel.


While I would say that the addition of suppression was unnecessary, if you think the B4 is super OP now and you lose games vs B4 spam even though you geunuinely tryharded: you're bad and it's your own fault.


Its not super OP but its definitly requre some ajustements to tone it down. At least cooldowns should match LeFH and ML20 to begin with.

Regadless if it can be countered with 2 clicks. Any arty piece but SPGs can be countered in 2 clicks anyway.
19 Jun 2021, 20:36 PM
#70
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905

There is seven axis commanders to destroy howitzers (5 wehr + 2 OKW). Seven! 2 clicks to get rid of 400mp 50 fuel.




Does the 105mm from Scavenge destroy howitzers? I haven't tried the commander in ages.
19 Jun 2021, 20:45 PM
#71
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2759 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jun 2021, 20:36 PMGrumpy


Does the 105mm from Scavenge destroy howitzers? I haven't tried the commander in ages.


It's inconsistent I think. But the 2 OKW docs I meant were feuersturm & Breakthrough.

And to sum up all the anti howitzer tools for axis:

1) Close Air Support doctrine has both recon plane + stukadive bomb

1) Storm doctrine has both recon plane + stukadive bomb

3) Osttruppen doc has Railway Arty

4) Festung Armor has Railway Arty

5) Luftwaffe Supply has Heavy Bomber & recon from the Officer

6) Feuersturm doc has Stuka rocket offmap strike. OKW also has nondoc recon planes from the Uhu

7) Breakthrough doc has Assault Artillery. OKW also has nondoc recon planes from the Uhu



This should be more than enough to always deal with B4s given you also have teammates if necessary. Any howitzers will easily lose you the game if the enemy clicks them away

Do not instantly select Overwatch/Jaeger Armor at the start of every single match and you're fine :)
19 Jun 2021, 20:51 PM
#72
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905



It's inconsistent I think. But the 2 OKW docs I meant were feuersturm & Breakthrough.




Thanks, I didn't realize Assault Arty would always get it. The Panzer Commander in Elite Armor also works but you have to get close to use the off-map arty as it it tied to the tank. Would be nice if you could put the commander on a Puma, then hunt Katy's and B4's.
19 Jun 2021, 20:57 PM
#73
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905


I did not said that. You asked irrelevant offtopic question and try to derail the discussion into Lefh vs B4. That is what called whataboutism.



This is your idea of a discussion?

Since this night no one need skill anymore since you only need some B4 and cons with at package and all is done to bomb the enemy back into the stone age.

And yeah... Let's nerf hard axis arty... So they don't even have a valid counter anymore.what was the idea?

Loom stream. They laugh their ass of when using b4.



It looks a lot more like a rant than a discussion. Between the ludicrous claims like the axis hard arty nerf, no counters to B4, etc, etc, it seems a lot more like a temper tantrum. I didn't ask any irrelevant, off topic questions nor tried to derail anything.

I also didn't disagree with any of the reasonable posts, like Kourney's, where they said the cooldown needs to be examined. It does seem fast. The vet gain seems fast also, but if they're going to tweak this then they should start with the cooldown which will affect the vet gain also.
19 Jun 2021, 21:22 PM
#74
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 217

Areafield
these factions have doctrines that are capable of decrewing or destroying lef's:
Sov has 6
UKF has 4
USF has 3
Total= more than axis, your point?
19 Jun 2021, 21:33 PM
#75
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3476 | Subs: 1

Areafield
these factions have doctrines that are capable of decrewing or destroying lef's:
Sov has 6
UKF has 4
USF has 3
Total= more than axis, your point?


Nobody complains about the lack of it on Allied side, just that Axis seems to rediscover the wheel facing a proper artillery working.
19 Jun 2021, 21:41 PM
#76
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Learn to save a commander to deal with arty, or pray they dont have any. Its now equitable in that reguard.
19 Jun 2021, 21:53 PM
#77
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 217

I find it funny that a major focus of this patch was to have less arty fest in larger game modes.

Lefh got nerfed (though needed a rework,not quite satisfied with it tbh)
B4 got buffed (though needed a rework)
ML20 got ''Buffed'' / unchanged
sexton and priest unchanged

so what happened in this patch, instead of just nerfing axis, B4 also got a buff.
So essentially we went from axis rule arty to allies rule arty
19 Jun 2021, 21:56 PM
#78
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Well, leFH still has the best general stats of any artillery. It just doesnt also shut down all Allied artillery. Now both sides can and will build arty. Sexton and Priest arent as mandatory to prevent a loss condition.
19 Jun 2021, 22:28 PM
#79
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 217

lefh may very well have the best overall/general stats of any arty, but compared to low/medium damage with a lot of censecutive shots, that allows for time to get out of dodge of the rest of the incoming shells, the B4 still delivers quite a punch with the same accuracy as other arty (i think, might be horribly wrong here, but sure feels tight and accurate) in a short timespan, with not much time to spare.

1st shot, you hear shooting/landing, and trying to find out where it is targeting.
2nd shot, you are selecting/scrambling to get your units in harms way, out the way of the 3rd one.
3rd shot, praying to RNGesus that you have moved your stuff far enough away to dodge 3rd shot.

So i would say that unless you are watching onscreen where B4 is currently firing, i would say 66% of its shots are viable to hit its intended mobile target (RNGesus willing)

whereas your standard arty would in the same timeframe fired 2-3 shells of lesser lethality and continue to uselessly unload rest of its shells.

Thusly i would point out that B4 is highly potent against mobile and static targets, compared to its contemporaries that are most useful vs static targets
19 Jun 2021, 22:53 PM
#80
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4126 | Subs: 3

There is seven axis commanders to destroy howitzers (5 wehr + 2 OKW). Seven! 2 clicks to get rid of 400mp 50 fuel.


I think there needs to be a massive reconsideration on how cheap all howitzers are on price. The price was lowered originally because there were counters like jaeger armor in doctrines that were picked every game. Those counters are not around anymore. On top of that, 400M and 50F is roughly 2 minutes of time designated to 1 unit in terms of income, whereas amassing 200MU + recon can take at minimum 4 minutes of income in munitions.

This is a similar problem to the old sturmtiger and how the T70 operates. The caliber of the gun is simply too large and unrealistic to make it a rapid fire weapon without making it look stupid. So we go to this idea of massive shells that it's a question of when, not if, the shell wipes full vet squads.

Something should change, as the risk vs reward is one sided currently.

if you think the B4 is super OP now and you lose games vs B4 spam even though you geunuinely tryharded: you're bad and it's your own fault.


Don't know where this came from.
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