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The devs did it again... Buffed B4 into the heaven

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10 Jul 2021, 10:22 AM
#241
avatar of masterx.

Posts: 19

The B4 is quite strong, its does small damage to tanks, but it murder inf quite well, or deny map area in my personal opinion its way better then its used to be, but its still not OP in any good team game, it will be countered by the late game ability.

On other hand why is noone complaining about sturmtiger, i tried it and i was amazed how well it performs (i didnt use it before patch, so i cant tell if it was buffed much or not). Even if you dont directly hit the squads its still kills few infantry members and suppress them. I had no problem getting it to vet 4/5 and after winning like 5-6 matches, i was like damm this is really good, but hey the allies get the same version of AVRE right? So i tried AVRE, man was i dissapointed, i used it the same way as sturmT in the matches before, it performed really bad (but maybe its just small sample size of one map idk)
10 Jul 2021, 13:33 PM
#242
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1



Balancing commanders will be balancing the game as long as commanders are in the role of stuffing holes in nondoctrinal roster.

Simply no. Commander changes should focus on creating interesting play and bringing commander at similar power level.



At an ideal game commanders would only provide optional units and abilities which alter the way to play but are not necessary to win or overcome an opponent playstyle.

In CoH2 reality only Ostheer comes close to that, OKW and Soviets still do quite good, USF/UKF is an awful faction design with such big holes in their roster that a KT can slip through unnoticed.

So as long as factions are missing units in nondoctrinal roster balancing commanders means balancing the game.

The effect of the current commander balance affected game balance in such a way, you can see that at the winrates I stated. The winrates get influenced in a positive way, so don't change single units without having a greater scope at the whole faction if you don't want to revert the positive effect.

It is simply to early to talk about balance stats but it also irrelevant to commanders. Having to use a single commander over and over again is simply bad for the game.

If B4 is OP it should simply be nerfed, if the Soviet faction weak it should be buffed. There is simply little connection between the two.
10 Jul 2021, 15:47 PM
#243
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290

The B4 is quite strong, its does small damage to tanks, but it murder inf quite well, or deny map area in my personal opinion its way better then its used to be, but its still not OP in any good team game, it will be countered by the late game ability.

On other hand why is noone complaining about sturmtiger, i tried it and i was amazed how well it performs (i didnt use it before patch, so i cant tell if it was buffed much or not). Even if you dont directly hit the squads its still kills few infantry members and suppress them. I had no problem getting it to vet 4/5 and after winning like 5-6 matches, i was like damm this is really good, but hey the allies get the same version of AVRE right? So i tried AVRE, man was i dissapointed, i used it the same way as sturmT in the matches before, it performed really bad (but maybe its just small sample size of one map idk)


Yeah I think you got Sturm and AVRE performance mixed. Does SturmT deal good damage with it's shot, yes it does. It's slow and allied AT guns have good chance of penetrating it constantly, it can't reload without becoming vulnerable. Compared to AVRE have better chance of bouncing axis AT-guns and can reload without becoming vulnerable, which most likely means it can fire more shots faster as it doesn't need to be backed off that far from frontline and is instantly reloading another shot after firing.
10 Jul 2021, 20:51 PM
#244
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2021, 13:33 PMVipper

Simply no. Commander changes should focus on creating interesting play and bringing commander at similar power level.
You are still talking about a game that not exists, you are talking about a state like it should be. In the current state of the game commanders are used to erase the holes in the nondotrinal raster. As long as that is the case a commander patch is a balance patch too.

I know you won't agree with me, so this point is done for me. Nothing new to add we just started to repeat our arguments over and over again. So I won't react to further repetitions.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2021, 13:33 PMVipper
It is simply to early to talk about balance stats but it also irrelevant to commanders.

If you think so. The devs seem to think otherwise:
Nice update, seems like post patch win ratios are heading in the right direction across pretty much all modes.

You can have your own opinion, I will agree here with Sander93. They did good work regarding balance with this patch. It is a trend you can see after nearly a month of the patched game.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2021, 13:33 PMVipper
Having to use a single commander over and over again is simply bad for the game.
That is the only thing I will agree with you. Apart from that I disagree with all you said and since I already said what I wanted to said I'm out at this point.

10 Jul 2021, 21:50 PM
#245
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1

You are still talking about a game that not exists, you are talking about a state like it should be. In the current state of the game commanders are used to erase the holes in the nondotrinal raster. As long as that is the case a commander patch is a balance patch too.

I know you won't agree with me, so this point is done for me. Nothing new to add we just started to repeat our arguments over and over again. So I won't react to further repetitions.


If you think so. The devs seem to think otherwise:

You can have your own opinion, I will agree here with Sander93. They did good work regarding balance with this patch. It is a trend you can see after nearly a month of the patched game.

That is the only thing I will agree with you. Apart from that I disagree with all you said and since I already said what I wanted to said I'm out at this point.


Faction balance and B4 balance are simply separate issues.

As for the Mode team the are clearly not happy with the current state of the B4

Here's a questions for the community as people argue about the B-4 203mm;

1. Would you prefer it to be tuned in its current iteration with stat adjustments. 3 shots with lower damage over a period of time.

or

2. Revert it back to what it was. 1 high damage shot.

Tuning the cooldown and the maybe reducing/removing the suppression would likely be priority on question 1.
12 Jul 2021, 01:19 AM
#247
avatar of thekessvn

Posts: 104

1/ Faction balance and commander balance is the whole thing. You cant separate and give a a sniff.
2/ Miregafia reply on popular voice from people as " if you want to nerf B4 then which is the good solutions for it ". Could you not using people words to create misleading ?
12 Jul 2021, 06:46 AM
#248
avatar of 45thPOTUS

Posts: 33


Yeah, that the point with LeFH and ML20. B4 on the other hand has AOE and Suppresion and IF its not a total complete miss, you will ALWAYS do damage. Near hits will destoy squad health and suppress them (forcing you to retreat), close\direct hits will just down right destoy you. In comparecent to ML20\LeFH B4 chances of dealing damage\wipes are x10 highter in comparison to mentioned ML20\LeFH.

Also it doesnt have 10+ seconds between shots.


The same literally applies to any other howis in the game. What is your point? Fact is, that B4 is still better in harrasing\wiping then other howis by a mile, unless you need to destoy static possitions.


Muni vs unit cost (in teamgames) only applyable if one rush it. When you have already established army, 400 MP and 50 fuel isnt even comparable to 200+ muni. There is no way player spending muni to counter howis will be able to keep pase with the guy rebuilding howis.

Also, how muni is not that important in your eyes anyway? No the fact that you wont be able to throw nades, use abilities, give inf upgrades in case of a lost squad is somehow less important then 400MP and 50 fuel?

And yes, aurgument that "if howis hit something" is questinable, but again chances that you will hit something are incomparably highter for B4 now.


Instead of looking at the B4 from a perpectinve of "Its not OP, its just another good howi", compare it to the other howis and the way they are countered. Since they have same advantages and disadvanatges, compare what amount of damage they can do in the same environment, with the same amount of shots and in the same situations.

Thats why B4 is not okey right now:

CP cost - the same
Res cost - the same
Raw damage - B4 is better
Barrage cooldown- B4 is better
Burst damage - B4 is better
Chances to hit\kill with first shell\few shells - B4 is better
Stopping inf advance - B4 is better
Bombard static possition\deny zone - B4 is worst

And its not marginally better, its by far better.


this is such an underrated comment,100% agree the b4 needs to be changed.
12 Jul 2021, 07:44 AM
#249
avatar of 45thPOTUS

Posts: 33

Here's a questions for the community as people argue about the B-4 203mm;

1. Would you prefer it to be tuned in its current iteration with stat adjustments. 3 shots with lower damage over a period of time.

or

2. Revert it back to what it was. 1 high damage shot.

Tuning the cooldown and the maybe reducing/removing the suppression would likely be priority on question 1.


tbf i quite like the current iteration with the 3 shots to reduce the rng nature of the b4, but as it stands right now, the b4 is way too good in grp games esp 4v4 mode. id prefer to reduce the dmg and reduce suppression radius.
13 Jul 2021, 15:20 PM
#250
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 248 | Subs: 1

Since this night no one need skill anymore since you only need some B4 and cons with at package and all is done to bomb the enemy back into the stone age.

And yeah... Let's nerf hard axis arty... So they don't even have a valid counter anymore.what was the idea?

Loom stream. They laugh their ass of when using b4.



They buffed the Sturmtiger into spheres that shouldn't be possible. It is incredible how mind bogglingly stupid the decisions of this so called balance (or rather un-balance?) team are.
MMX
13 Jul 2021, 15:41 PM
#251
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jul 2021, 15:20 PMGarrett


They buffed the Sturmtiger into spheres that shouldn't be possible. It is incredible how mind bogglingly stupid the decisions of this so called balance (or rather un-balance?) team are.


don't worry, your ignorance and willful obliviousness of facts remains unparalleled...
13 Jul 2021, 19:37 PM
#252
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 248 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jul 2021, 15:41 PMMMX


don't worry, your ignorance and willful obliviousness of facts remains unparalleled...


Do you care to enlighten me?
14 Jul 2021, 05:06 AM
#253
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

The only buff they made was consistency. Literally the only change is it does what it is supposed to.
16 Jul 2021, 05:53 AM
#254
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

B4 Mid AOE is 0.05.
that mean its damage is 400*0.05 = 60 dmg pershot.
therefore if it wasn't direct hit. B4 didn't even able to kill 1 infantry model.
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