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Another infantry spam post

15 May 2021, 16:21 PM
#1
avatar of NigelBallsworth

Posts: 205

Some time ago, I posted a complaint about OKW spam. At the time, I believed this phenomena to be exclusive to OKW. I was wrong. I played several games as OKW and Ost, attempting several spam- based strategies to see if they were viable, if it's a L2P issue on my part, etc...

I experienced mixed results. What I did notice however, was that Allied factions were just as likely to spam in team games. In fact, this approach seemed to dominate team games.

The overall effect seemed to be that games accelerated, with whoever fielded the most infantry and were careful with preservation, generally winning in the end. The only response seemed to be a frantic arms race toward anything that could counter masses of infantry.

In the end, whoever had the largest groups of infantry won, due to winning enough time to field their own heavies, etc...

Question : has anyone else noticed this in team games ? Are longer strategies dead ? Are combined arms strategies now the province of elite players, ie: those that can make them work properly ?
15 May 2021, 17:12 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Team games, especially low rank ones are all about blobbing.
You have to always adapt to expect and fight blob in team games.
15 May 2021, 17:26 PM
#3
avatar of NigelBallsworth

Posts: 205

of course. So a follow-up question might be how better players handle this. I use mines, MGs, AI vehicles, but in team games, you often see two or more players combined their swarms. Is this why high-level players don't play team games ?
15 May 2021, 18:24 PM
#4
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3465 | Subs: 1

of course. So a follow-up question might be how better players handle this. I use mines, MGs, AI vehicles, but in team games, you often see two or more players combined their swarms. Is this why high-level players don't play team games ?


They do the same but more eficiently.
15 May 2021, 18:37 PM
#5
17 May 2021, 17:57 PM
#6
avatar of MarkedRaptor

Posts: 320

of course. So a follow-up question might be how better players handle this. I use mines, MGs, AI vehicles, but in team games, you often see two or more players combined their swarms. Is this why high-level players don't play team games ?


Blobbing wins when it hits you hard and at random. When it consistently drains you of MP while he doesn't lose any. Because at that point it's a slippery slope where you are spending so much MP to reinforce losses he didn't take. So you are bled and unable to buy the counters to said blob. It's very important to initially scout out if your opponent is a blobber and not to drain your own MP with losing engagements. It's alright to just instantly fallback if you have just then realized he's doing it with your squads out in the open and spread out simply because you can't win anymore. It's at this point scouting tools become important.

Different blobs do have different counters, a tommy blob is infinitely worse against any light vehicle vs say a volks blob. But a volks blob can be outgunned.

It's worth noting mines/grenades/other muni utility are a trap against massive blobbers. Because they will buy gun upgrades to ensure they keep winning in any firefights while having a sweeper in the blob.

Counters are basically an MG42 or a really good/suppression light vehicle (Like an M5 meat grinder) that can be mobile and dodge snares. Have something that forces them to run at you while you take good cover and you'll win most likely.
18 May 2021, 08:52 AM
#7
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

Unironically the best counter to any blob is Maxim due to its enormous AOE suppression. Yes it takes a little longer to suppress, but when it does, its a dead blob with a single Katyusha barrage.
25 Jun 2021, 02:54 AM
#8
avatar of NigelBallsworth

Posts: 205



Blobbing wins when it hits you hard and at random. When it consistently drains you of MP while he doesn't lose any. Because at that point it's a slippery slope where you are spending so much MP to reinforce losses he didn't take. So you are bled and unable to buy the counters to said blob. It's very important to initially scout out if your opponent is a blobber and not to drain your own MP with losing engagements. It's alright to just instantly fallback if you have just then realized he's doing it with your squads out in the open and spread out simply because you can't win anymore. It's at this point scouting tools become important.

Different blobs do have different counters, a tommy blob is infinitely worse against any light vehicle vs say a volks blob. But a volks blob can be outgunned.

It's worth noting mines/grenades/other muni utility are a trap against massive blobbers. Because they will buy gun upgrades to ensure they keep winning in any firefights while having a sweeper in the blob.

Counters are basically an MG42 or a really good/suppression light vehicle (Like an M5 meat grinder) that can be mobile and dodge snares. Have something that forces them to run at you while you take good cover and you'll win most likely.


I like it. Thanks for the help.
25 Jun 2021, 03:41 AM
#9
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 957

has anyone else noticed this in team games ? Are longer strategies dead ? Are combined arms strategies now the province of elite players, ie: those that can make them work properly ?


Yes, I made a thread about it a few months ago; Link. My suggestions weren't too popular, judging by the polls at least, but the discussion was good. The one thing that did (barely) win out was making upgrades more "exclusive", so you couldn't stack so many abilities/weapons on a single squad.

Over-all, I find it pretty disappointing. CoH2's gameplay is really good when it's focusing on the tactical use of units; cover, flanking, grenades, smoke, that sort of thing. Blobbing isn't that, but it's incredibly effective. Yes, there are ways of punishing it, but my preference would be that it's just not viable in the first place.

Realistically blobbed infantry should be taking more damage and more suppression, but I don't think shoving some sort of "negative zeal aura" thing (from CoH1) that increases damage and suppression taken when near other units is going to happen.
25 Jun 2021, 04:54 AM
#10
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905

Some time ago, I posted a complaint about OKW spam. At the time, I believed this phenomena to be exclusive to OKW. I was wrong. I played several games as OKW and Ost, attempting several spam- based strategies to see if they were viable, if it's a L2P issue on my part, etc...

I experienced mixed results. What I did notice however, was that Allied factions were just as likely to spam in team games. In fact, this approach seemed to dominate team games.

The overall effect seemed to be that games accelerated, with whoever fielded the most infantry and were careful with preservation, generally winning in the end. The only response seemed to be a frantic arms race toward anything that could counter masses of infantry.

In the end, whoever had the largest groups of infantry won, due to winning enough time to field their own heavies, etc...

Question : has anyone else noticed this in team games ? Are longer strategies dead ? Are combined arms strategies now the province of elite players, ie: those that can make them work properly ?


Combined arms is always better, but you have to be realistic. One mg isn't going to hold back five or more squads of anything.

You can call it "blobbing" as much as you want, but high level players "blob" together more than low level players. If you're playing a 3v3, if you can double team one player when they're not expecting it, you might be able to wipe them before the other team reacts and significantly turn the game. A big attack is almost always better than a timid one. If you're in a 4v4, the worst thing that you and your teammate can do is keep attacking out of sync with each other. You'll bleed more and accomplish less. So take you pick - attack with your teammate and have someone call you a blobber while they are surrendering, or get a ggwp from them when you lose.

Lastly, anyone who says that only "allied" players are blobbers just outed themselves as an axis-only player and vice versa.
12 Jul 2021, 23:29 PM
#11
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2021, 08:52 AMJilet
Unironically the best counter to any blob is Maxim due to its enormous AOE suppression. Yes it takes a little longer to suppress, but when it does, its a dead blob with a single Katyusha barrage.

fixing your post: take the MG-42 from the germans, and use that instead*

13 Jul 2021, 09:57 AM
#12
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 753

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2021, 08:52 AMJilet
Unironically the best counter to any blob is Maxim due to its enormous AOE suppression. Yes it takes a little longer to suppress, but when it does, its a dead blob with a single Katyusha barrage.

Mg42 suppresses much faster, because a) it has twice the amount of suppression per bullet b) it deals ~1.4x more AOE suppression and c) it fires 3%/25%/100% faster then maxim (too convoluted with different burst durations and cooldowns). It does not matter how much accuracy and how big AOE radius Maxim has, if the difference between suppression amounts is that high. Perhaps with sustained fire, but that's another story.
15 Jul 2021, 09:58 AM
#13
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 445

I had a game where this Brit guy ran around with his SMG 4 squad infantry sections blob.
I made 3 panzer grenadiers and bundle naded his blob to pieces.
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