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UKF BluSonicX Balance Operation

10 May 2021, 05:02 AM
#1
avatar of blusonicx

Posts: 5

Ladies and Gentlemen,

we need to talk ... about the current situation of the Brits.

As many have probably already noticed, there is a significant balancing problem within the British armed forces with the other factions in the game.

In this thread, the current problems should be explained in more detail and compared with the other groups.


1.) The Brits live on green cover and are only then really playable and strong in the starting phase of the game. However, the sandbags were considerably extended in their construction time, which means that the Brits can no longer properly occupy their sectors and are busy building the sandbags. Good players take advantage of this weakness of the Brits immediately and therefore push in the early phase of the game to prevent the British from expanding early.
Since the section costs 270 manpower and only has 4 men in the squad, the Brit can hardly defend himself against an early push.
Although the German Wehrmacht only has 4 men in its squad, the costs are much lower here. Grenadiers also have valuable tools such as bazookas and mortar shells.
Unfortunately, one section has no tools and cannot defend itself against early vehicles.
In addition, the lower costs for the Wehrmacht mean that more sectors can be captured at an early stage, as more squads enter the field.

The Brit is forced to always build a universal carrier in order not to completely lose touch with the early game.

This leads us to the next problem.

2.) The AEC.

The AEC used to be good against infantry and vehicles. After countless changes in the game, the AEC no longer feels strong and is overridden relatively early by a Puma or a Pak.

In addition, the increased construction time is significantly noticeable, as the 222 scout car of the Wehrmacht or OKW is massively affecting the British armed forces. The British armed forces can hardly defend themselves against these units and bleed manpower early on.

The changes to the Medipak upgrade mean that the British armed forces can no longer recover early from the serious injuries in the early game.

So the Brit is slowly bleeding to death, the AEC is too late. The changes made in the last patch have had serious consequences for British gameplay today.

3.) Royal Engineers

Compared to other pioneers, the Royal Engineers have many disadvantages that can only be neutralized later in the game.

So that you can repair your universal carrier in the early phase of the game, you have to send a squad of Royal Engineers onto the field. Unfortunately, if not upgraded with a flamethrower, these are completely useless in combat. The star is rarely used effectively. At the same time, you need more ammunition in the early phase of the game for the flamethrower upgrade, but you need this first for the upgrade of the universal carrier.

Another problem is that the Medi Pak for the British section also costs ammunition.

The ammunition requirement of the British in the early game phase is extremely high.

Since Royal Engineers are the most expensive pioneers after the storm pioneers, they rarely get to participate effectively in combat in the early game phase, but only take on support tasks.

The Sten doesn't really fit the British way of playing either. Royal Engineers should therefore receive rifles in order to be better integrated into the play style of the British Early Game Phase.

Another problem is that there is basically no hold fire function for units. If Royal Enginners, i.e. approaching a unit that is fundamentally not within effective range of the Sten Mps, then they shoot the magazine almost empty before they are within effective range.

That leads us to another problem.

4.) The Vickers machine gun.

The Brits have a serious problem in the early stages of the game, namely being able to defend their Vickers effectively against early crosses. Wehrmacht pioneers, whose Mp40 perform quite well for 200 manpower, are very happy to accompany a Vickers. At the latest, however, when OKW appears with the 222 scout car, a Vickers can hardly be defended because Royal Engineers have no range and cannot actively participate in the defense of the Vickers.

In a direct comparison to the Wehrmacht, a few points can be compared here, which bring out the direct weakness of the British.

Grenadiers have a bazooka with a very long range. This means that the universal carrier can easily be displaced by the Vickers.

The Wehrmacht pioneers complement the German grenadiers very well and can defend the MG42 well.

Compared to the MG42, the Vickers machine gun feels rather inferior. It also scales very poorly with the veteran levels. The MG42 immediately counteracts the universal carrier with Vet 1, while grenadiers continue to have the tried and tested bazookas.

Vickers suppression feels very slow and ineffective. This means that a Vickers can be flanked frontally with relatively no problems.

This explains a general problem facing the British.

5.) Everything depends on the universal carrier.

British gameplay is heavily reliant on the Universal Porter's performance in the early stages of the game. Which, however, can be countered relatively early by reconnaissance vehicles and bazookas. That makes the British extremely shaky in the early stages of the game. The gameplay feels very exhausting and does not forgive any losses.

The next problem comes quickly.

6.) Command units

When used correctly, commands are a deadly unit, but they have many limitations that pose a problem to other "elite" units.

Commands require 3 command points. No elite unit from the other factions needs 3 Command Points before they can be used.

This poses a considerable problem, since commands enter the field relatively late. The Briton is forced to play aggressively in order to accumulate 3 command points.

However, this does not fit with the British play style, as it depends heavily on green cover and is more defensive.

Compared to other factions, special forces enter the field with one command point, but no later than two. Even Soviet guards and shock troops enter the field with two command points. A significant imbalance.

Thus, the British are already fighting against paratroopers, hunters, tank grenadiers, infiltration troops and elite hunter units, even before they can even nearly call a special unit themselves.



In general, here are some reasons that explain the currently very weak gameplay of the British. Even in the final stages of a game, the British never feel equal to the other factions.

The current statistics also show that the British perform worst in 1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs3 and even 4vs4 and are played the least.

This is likely to result from the reasons already mentioned.
10 May 2021, 06:17 AM
#4
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Im pretty sure rangers are 3 cp, same as mandos. Mandos are great.

The engi problem is fixed next patch with recovery engi commanders and massive snare cd reduction. Removing the cover requirement for Vet 1 bonuses would help as well.

Vickers needs a higher suppression/dmg ratio, especially vs grens with rifle nades. Or fix the on kill stutter.

The AEC needs its upgrade removed to allow somewhat more reactive play, as it needs a LV to fight to get value. The AEC and Bofors upgrades shouldnt exist.
10 May 2021, 06:54 AM
#5
avatar of blusonicx

Posts: 5

Im pretty sure rangers are 3 cp, same as mandos. Mandos are great.

The engi problem is fixed next patch with recovery engi commanders and massive snare cd reduction. Removing the cover requirement for Vet 1 bonuses would help as well.

Vickers needs a higher suppression/dmg ratio, especially vs grens with rifle nades. Or fix the on kill stutter.

The AEC needs its upgrade removed to allow somewhat more reactive play, as it needs a LV to fight to get value. The AEC and Bofors upgrades shouldnt exist.


Well, you are right, Rangers are on 3 cp, but you already got an really strong Infantry Mainline and good Tech. So, you dont really wait for rangers, they just improve your nice gameplay.

The other thing is, as a USF, you can play aggressive and force 3 cps, as a brit, its not really possible.
10 May 2021, 08:12 AM
#6
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 177

AEC mostly just feels late now. The combat performance feels in line with its cost, and Target Tread is a monster snare. Vickers could be more like a standard MG, blobs can be a problem to handle with Brits.

Hard disagree on basically everything said about the Engineers though.

The 10 manpower difference between them and Pioneers / Rear Echelons is barely noticeable, and their combat performance at vet 0 is in line with Pioneers. Their only real problem is that their vet 1 combat upgrade sucks. Meanwhile, they are one of the only units with a Snare that also makes a good handheld AT carrier. They have good mines, destroy cover, excellent cap speed, and a reinforce cost reduction at vet 3. Fix the vet 1 upgrade and they might be my favorite engineer.

The medpacks are the same price as Sturm Medkit drops but are infinitely better, (3 uses vs infinites) and you get the alternate option to just get Medics and keep the munitions for use elsewhere.

Commandos really shouldn't be the core unit Brits are based around. They allow for a fun style of play, but clearly aren't intended to be the focus of the faction.

A few things like the Vickers and AEC I at least partially agree on, but my list of problems with the faction is very different:

1) Base Arty sucks, and no mobile indirect is present in the faction. Limiting their ability to punish setup teams.

2) Smoke and close assault options are bad. Brits struggle to push back out on the map to retake lost ground.

3) Gameplay is too linear, and vehicle roster is too top heavy. With only 1 real LV in the AEC, and weak mid game infantry in the Assault Officer, British playstyles are incredibly predictable. Meanwhile, the top end of the vehicle roster is overloaded with units that just play too similarly to one another and don't diversify British capabilities the way something like the Scott, Brummbar, and Katusha do.
10 May 2021, 08:43 AM
#7
avatar of spaget man

Posts: 17

I am confused, is this a troll post?
10 May 2021, 09:07 AM
#8
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

What you forgot is the lack of non-doctrinal artillery options.
10 May 2021, 09:18 AM
#9
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 381

Just give up your hope. UKF is the only faction having WR of around 43% WR in 1v1(https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1617235200/1v1/wermacht?statsSource=top200), yet they don't even want to face the fact that UKF is week.
Not showing on pro level play like ML is because pros tend to like other factions, Having low WR in automatch is because UKF players tend to have low skills. :P

With current balance, I can safely say removing UKF from the game will surely gonna boost WR of soviet & USF in team games. Somewhat buff for the allies.
10 May 2021, 10:16 AM
#10
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Just give up your hope. UKF is the only faction having WR of around 43% WR in 1v1(https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1617235200/1v1/wermacht?statsSource=top200), yet they don't even want to face the fact that UKF is week


Would you mind quoting anyone on that?

Because it should be obvious from the preview patch notes that a lot is being done - within the scope of the patch and what's currently allowed - to improve the viability of UKF, with doctrinal buffs and changes to help mitigate their weaknesses. More alternative infantry (Recovery Sappers and Raid Section changes, upcoming Assault Sections buffs), more access to indirect fire (mobile mortar being added to two more commanders) and buffing heavy indirect fire (significant LM buffs) and several commander changes to improve abilities or their availability.

If we simply count the changes in the preview, there are currently about 18 buffs to 4 nerfs.
Does that really shout "they don't even want to face the fact that UKF is weak" to you?


And this is not even counting the indirect buffs to UKF by toning down the top meta Axis commanders.
10 May 2021, 10:33 AM
#11
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1


Would you mind quoting anyone on that?


He has a point though. It's not the balance team itself that is the problem though. The community will simply not accept competitive UKF. Can I only remind you of the outcry the received accuracy buff on Infantry Sections caused a few patches ago? Several people went out of their way to "prove" UKF is broken and unbeatable OP. The amount of crying and whining was unbearable and only stopped once UKF was proven to be worse than USF/Soviets again.

The main thing the balance team has to work on: Make UKF better vs. Ostheer while keeping them at the same power level vs OKW.

UKF is not weak overall but simply can't do anything against Ostheer players that know how to abuse their weaknesses.

They also need a bit of help for late-game team games due to the lack of non-doctrinal artillery options.
10 May 2021, 11:57 AM
#12
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2573 | Subs: 4


Several people went out of their way to "prove" UKF is broken and unbeatable OP. The amount of crying and whining was unbearable and only stopped once UKF was proven to be worse than USF/Soviets again.


I still remember one guy (who got banned in the meantime) that wanted to prove how OP a 6x section build is in 1v1 tournaments 2 years ago, just to get clapped in 20 minutes by a top 5 Wehrmacht player :snfPeter:


Anyway, as mentioned before: Wait for the next iteration of the patch and the whole patch overall. It should massively improve things for the british faction
10 May 2021, 12:46 PM
#13
avatar of Latch

Posts: 742

The issue with UKF is they NEED commanders to fill gaps, every other faction has all the basic tools non doc, I don't see why it is such a no no to put a mortar in UKF's lineup without a doctrinal pick.

USF got one despite having the pack howie, OKW got an MG as they could only get one via a commander. Just give UKF a mortar, you solve a lot of the issues the faction has with it, and then maybe I can stop having to use mobile assault for a change.
10 May 2021, 18:33 PM
#14
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 523

As I said maybe like 10 times before, UKF has big holes in their design that causes them to have some sort of "justified gimmicks" to rely on. Such as;

>Infantry Sections not having snare but having raw killing power
>Not having an actual mortar but relying on un-bleedable emplacement mortar
>Not having an actual penetrating TD but having alpha strikes and so on.

Seriously, if Relic is not allowing the balance team to realize changes such as those, then it is safe to say that UKF will never see the light of day with its current not fun to play as or against situation.
11 May 2021, 01:12 AM
#15
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 487

As I have mentioned previously in other posts, all of the crutches that UKF leaned on were nerfed into the ground with classic double or triple nerfs so now they are a sub par faction.

Universal Carrier - Needs the Ability to Capture Territory

Vickers needs to benefit from Infantry Squad Bolter and become 5 man if they are to be remotely useful. A single MG-42 can stop an infantry push, you need like 3-4 Vickers to be just as effective. Single Vickers will just die since its made out of paper.

Infantry Sections are currently complete dog shite which would be ok if they had support weapons that were useful (like Whermact). A single mortar with a halftrack supporting it can shut down a British Mortar pit since it can attack forever while its impossible to repair a Mortar Pit under fire without losing your Royal Engineers in the process. They need to give Brits a mortar that isn't the mortar pit without having to rely on a commander just to function as a proper faction.

If just those issues could be addressed they would be in a solid state, until then they will continue to have the lowest win rate.

11 May 2021, 03:44 AM
#16
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 944

Honestly, with the balance restrictions the patch team has been given, UKF isn't fixable. The core faction design is missing too much, especially when compared to the current state of the other factions (lots of utility, build options, indirect fire, etc.).

UKF is missing many core functions (snares on mainlines, mobile indirect fire, etc.) which results in them swinging from "OP" to "UP" as single units are buffed or nerfed. Meanwhile, the few reliable mainline units they do have are each burdened with so many different tasks and abilities that they simply can't be good in any of them.

The community will simply not accept competitive UKF. Can I only remind you of the outcry the received accuracy buff on Infantry Sections caused a few patches ago?


The problem wasn't the accuracy buff by itself - they probably needed it. The problem is it was going on a unit that currently has an absurd amount of utility and upgrades, which just made UKF's build even more repetitive to both play with and against.

Here's a list of all the things one Infantry Section can do or be upgraded with:
  • 2x Brens
  • 2x Piats
  • Gammon Bomb Grenade
  • Mills Bomb Grenade
  • Pyrotechnics Supplies Upgrade (artillery call-in) – Blocks Medic upgrade
  • Medical Supplies Upgrade (healing) – Blocks Pyro upgrade
  • Bolster (+1 model)
  • Build Sandbags
  • Build Fuel/Muni Caches
  • Additional abilities from doctrines


If we start removing things on that list, then they can become better on what's left - but until that happens, they simply can't excel in any one area, because they don't really have an area they're weak in.
12 May 2021, 06:19 AM
#17
avatar of blusonicx

Posts: 5



Would you mind quoting anyone on that?

Because it should be obvious from the preview patch notes that a lot is being done - within the scope of the patch and what's currently allowed - to improve the viability of UKF, with doctrinal buffs and changes to help mitigate their weaknesses. More alternative infantry (Recovery Sappers and Raid Section changes, upcoming Assault Sections buffs), more access to indirect fire (mobile mortar being added to two more commanders) and buffing heavy indirect fire (significant LM buffs) and several commander changes to improve abilities or their availability.

If we simply count the changes in the preview, there are currently about 18 buffs to 4 nerfs.
Does that really shout "they don't even want to face the fact that UKF is weak" to you?


And this is not even counting the indirect buffs to UKF by toning down the top meta Axis commanders.


The Patch will not change anything big. Its just a little change in some cases, but not a real CHANGER.

I just mean, as an example, a brit commander with a 81mm mortar? Really? In many cases, its just wrong. How will you protect this mortar, maybe, you know, sections dont have anything vs 222 etc. And the Range of this mortar is very low and the dmg crap. Waste of resources.

Just make it stock and put a REAL mortar in the commander, like the soviet 120mm as an example.
12 May 2021, 12:11 PM
#18
avatar of JacK_Qc

Posts: 33



I just mean, as an example, a brit commander with a 81mm mortar? Really?
Just make it stock and put a REAL mortar in the commander, like the soviet 120mm as an example.


I agree why would you go for a doctrinal 81 mortar when it's ignored STOCK on every faction (except wehr which has counterbarrage).

If it has to be doctrinal, then make that mortar worth it, I would like to see the old low range/high rate of fire mortar USF had before(M2 60mm). So UKF would have 2 mortars choise:
The Doctrinal m2 60mm low range high dps, weak to flank and late game get annihilated by Panzerwerfer.

And the mortar emplacement : high range, upgradeable for late game.
12 May 2021, 17:49 PM
#19
avatar of blusonicx

Posts: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2021, 12:11 PMJacK_Qc


I agree why would you go for a doctrinal 81 mortar when it's ignored STOCK on every faction (except wehr which has counterbarrage).

If it has to be doctrinal, then make that mortar worth it, I would like to see the old low range/high rate of fire mortar USF had before(M2 60mm). So UKF would have 2 mortars choise:
The Doctrinal m2 60mm low range high dps, weak to flank and late game get annihilated by Panzerwerfer.

And the mortar emplacement : high range, upgradeable for late game.


Exactly. But i would prefer more a long range high dps mortar. Short Range is just to easy to encounter with mortar shells from ostheer grens. They already doing this with the Vickers MG.
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