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russian armor

RK 43

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4 May 2021, 12:42 PM
#1
avatar of T70xwing

Posts: 41

Dear Miragefla and balance team please do something about this tiny AT gun because its overperforms for its price and before you toxic dicks comment your waste like L2P or you are just bad let me plead my case:

OKW has too many AT options and yet people only deffault into 1 maybe 2 options do you even understand why ?

RK 43 is at T0 with no pre requisites and its the same cost as m1 ATG its 5 men and its rocket will always penetrate all tier armor 2 of em 1 volleys a LV 2 volley's a AFV and 4 volleys at max to the heavy tank

it can retreat it can garrison and its only weak to lucky arty hits or grenades which requires a heavy dosage of RNG to be killed. not to mention vet 1 gives camo vet 2 gives 25% reload and pen on not camo and vet 3 gives guaranteed pen from ambush and of course the innate +10% recived accuracy when on the move does not apply to this thing either.

either force players to expand to full tier 1 or tier 2 before buying this or replace it with a new model pak 36 37mm because other wise this is too OP to handle 2 rk 43s instantly shuts down all armored gameplay me with only viable option being scott spam to deal with it just FFS force people to buy the different anti veichle units to deal with varying types of armor in the entire game one AT gun should not be able to deal with T1 T3 T4 and TD armor while being present on the starting line up

now as for counter arguments the people who will say but if you move RK 43 we would be vanurable to clown car and bren carrier spam to that i say its not true your sturmpios can litreally buy panzerschrek for 60 muni with not pre req and of course now they are not exclusive with sweepers either

and no USF bazzokas and UKF piats are not the same as this their launchers are limited at the max rifle distance of 35 (40 if you pick up bazzoka range which has no justification to bring as a seperate bulletin)
4 May 2021, 13:53 PM
#2
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 172

Are u playing USF? Because Rak hardly pen KV,Churchill,Comet.

  • now as for counter arguments the people who will say but if you move RK 43 we would be vanurable to clown car and bren carrier spam to that i say its not true your sturmpios can litreally buy panzerschrek for 60 muni with not pre req and of course now they are not exclusive with sweepers either
    Yes Okw will doomed. Shreck requires an HQ truck, same as Volk snare. Rak is the only AT option at the start for Okw. You never face 2-3 Clown & UC at the start as Okw.
4 May 2021, 14:04 PM
#3
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3505 | Subs: 3

Raketen is absolutely garbage. I would throw a party if OKW got the pak40.
4 May 2021, 14:05 PM
#4
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 797

I will go out of my way to steal 57mils on the field if possible rather than get two of these things. Even the ZiS can be used to blow away an MG team rather than have my rak drop models like flies from every stray bullet. Oh I got some bad replies from ppl in the past after stealing a 6-pounder and using it against their armor. "Rak OP" is not one of them
4 May 2021, 14:23 PM
#5
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1557

Raketen is absolutely garbage. I would throw a party if OKW got the pak40.

Stupid question, why do people think pak 40 is best ATG?? I mean isn't USF m1 57mm better???
4 May 2021, 14:26 PM
#6
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

Wow. This is a weird thread.

The M1 AT-gun is not only cheaper but also better than the Raketenwerfer.

The ability to garrison is useless and virtually never used. It's not locked behind tech because OKW has no snares but needs to fight UC, M3, and WC51. Meanwhile, all USF has to deal with is the Kübelwagen and doctrinally the mediocre 221.
4 May 2021, 14:28 PM
#7
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1


Stupid question, why do people think pak 40 is best ATG?? I mean isn't USF m1 57mm better???


He said that because the Pak40 is an Axis unit and therefore could potentially be used for OKW.

I personally prefer the M1 ATG over any other AT-gun because of ROF, reaction time, cone of fire, insane range and ability to self spot at vet1 plus very very good penetration with HVAP. If you feed the M1 muni it is definitely the best ATG. It is also objectively the best ATG against any sort of light vehicle due to ROF and cone of fire even without muni. It also costs only 270 MP which makes it quite a bit easier to afford in the early game compared to regular AT-guns and the Raketenwerfer.
4 May 2021, 14:30 PM
#8
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1557



He said that because the Pak40 is an Axis unit and therefore could potentially be used for OKW.

I personally prefer the M1 ATG over any other AT-gun because of ROF, reaction time, cone of fire, insane range and ability to self spot at vet1 plus very very good penetration with HVAP. If you feed the M1 muni it is definitely the best ATG. It is also objectively the best ATG against any sort of light vehicle due to ROF and cone of fire even without muni. It also costs only 270 MP which makes it quite a bit easier to afford in the early game compared to regular AT-guns and the Raketenwerfer.

I mean you could always have the stats.
4 May 2021, 14:35 PM
#9
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

mhhh have u actually tried either

playing the "op" faction with the "op" unit

or

Checked the stats of the unit and compare it with other at guns ?
4 May 2021, 14:36 PM
#10
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1


I mean you could always have the stats.


What do you mean? The stats are there for everyone to look up.
4 May 2021, 14:44 PM
#11
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


Stupid question, why do people think pak 40 is best ATG?? I mean isn't USF m1 57mm better???

As a standard AT gun, yeah, the m1 57mm is the best.
I'm not saying it's OP, but I don't see how it's up to debate, USF team weapons are really really really good
The Zis barrage make it a wonderful late game tool tho. Both are definetly great AT guns
Pak and pounder are more or less the same
Raketen, ever since it lost the ability to move while camoed, became arguably the worst
4 May 2021, 14:58 PM
#12
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1806 | Subs: 1

No gun shield, shorter range than other ATGs, weird clumping when you hit retreat that can lead to wipes, bugged garrison where you can't use prioritize vehicles making garrison useless... so OP

Also was it so hard to add the extra "A" into Rak-43? lol
4 May 2021, 15:01 PM
#13
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 380


As a standard AT gun, yeah, the m1 57mm is the best.


I disagree. 57 is good on axis because it's low penetrate doesn't mean much vs allies low armor tanks. So it's characteristic (low pen / fast shot) works good.

OTOH, allies would die to get pak40, thx to it's good penetrate & good skill that can stun the tank with vet1.

Someone mentioned raket is bad because it can hardly penetrate kv1/comet/churchil, but in reality raket has higher penetrate than 57.
(57: 150/140/130 vs raket: 200/190/180)
Thinking about it, OkW p4 or vet2 OST p4 has 234 armor which is only 6 less than churchil. Panther has 260 by default and goes up to 286. It can bounce almost half the shot even at the close range. So... You see what I mean. 57 isn't the best at least on the hand of allies. Whom need high pen to deal with high armor tanks. I'd rather use 6pounder on this matter.



However, I'm happy with where raket is in current patch. Raket surely was OP when it had both stealth move & retreat. But now it can't do stealth move, and it has less range than other ATs.
4 May 2021, 15:33 PM
#14
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2601 | Subs: 2

I also wanted to make a thread about ATGs recently.

The Raketenwerfer is fine. I think the 5 meter range trade off does not cause it to be less effective as AT, but that it is exposed a tad more than other ATGs which fits OKWs offensive theme. 5 men and retreat are there to compensate for those 5 meters and the missing shield.
The earlier timing is due to Allied light vehicle options. But let's be real: A UC will probably not bleed you enough in the first 5 minutes to force a Raketenwerfer. In most cases, it is better to just sustain the damage until you have Fausts because you need the map presence more than the AT capability.

Regarding the 57mm discussion:
The gun is good, but probably only in 1v1 because there are more mediums and LVs. The larger the mode, the more garbage it becomes. Especially because it scales quite badly with vet, probably the worst of all ATGs in the game. For it to work like other ATGs, you need to constantly dump at least 30 mun into it, which is not worth the reduced price of 50 MP in the long run.
4 May 2021, 15:35 PM
#15
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1557



What do you mean? The stats are there for everyone to look up.

Well I mean he could have said, "I wish it had the same stats as M1". It's not as if the weapon can not m1 stats by not being m1.
4 May 2021, 15:42 PM
#16
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1557


Someone mentioned raket is bad because it can hardly penetrate kv1/comet/churchil, but in reality raket has higher penetrate than 57.
(57: 150/140/130 vs raket: 200/190/180)
Thinking about it, OkW p4 or vet2 OST p4 has 234 armor which is only 6 less than churchil. Panther has 260 by default and goes up to 286. It can bounce almost half the shot even at the close range. So... You see what I mean. 57 isn't the best at least on the hand of allies. Whom need high pen to deal with high armor tanks. I'd rather use 6pounder on this matter.

But 57 has HVAP, with it it has 60 range + 225/210/195 pen + considerable higher fire rate.
4 May 2021, 15:46 PM
#17
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 380


But 57 has HVAP, with it it has 60 range + 225/210/195 pen + considerable higher fire rate.


Yes in cost of 30 muni. Not saying it's bad, but it simply means you need to pay 30 muni for everytime you want 57 to work as descent AT.
4 May 2021, 15:51 PM
#18
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5272



Yes in cost of 30 muni. Not saying it's bad, but it simply means you need to pay 30 muni for everytime you want 57 to work as descent AT.

Its also got the capability to increase range and the faster ROF. it's got the most potential of any AT gun and its 50mo cheaper. It's a well designed gun especially for USF who was intended to make ample use of MUNI abilities instead of just slapping BARS around.
4 May 2021, 15:56 PM
#19
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2601 | Subs: 2


But 57 has HVAP, with it it has 60 range + 225/210/195 pen + considerable higher fire rate.

The higher ROF only exists at lower vet. To be exact it is 0,5 seconds which is pretty much exactly 10% better compared to the Raketenwerfer. That's decent, but at vet2 the Raketenwerfer will already outperform the 57mm with them being equal at vet3 and the Rak being better at vet5 if it ever lives long enough for that.
4 May 2021, 16:00 PM
#20
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 380


Its also got the capability to increase range and the faster ROF. it's got the most potential of any AT gun and its 50mo cheaper. It's a well designed gun especially for USF who was intended to make ample use of MUNI abilities instead of just slapping BARS around.


I guess some how the topic moved from rak to 57. Hm...

Turning take aim costs extra 30muni. So overall its 60 muni for a single fight. It doesnt give you faster ROF. It gives sight & range(+10) bonus for 20 sec.
57 itself has only 55% chance of pen p4 & 45% on Panther. So yes, they need to eat muni to deal with them.


But vs. USF tanks,
100% on jackson & 81% on sherman. So I can clearly see OkW wants 57 rather than rak...
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