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russian armor

okw is trash

19 Apr 2021, 14:33 PM
#21
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I have clearly provided the document with Jibber’s statistics from the current Master League tournament.
19 Apr 2021, 14:37 PM
#22
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 756



Nonsense, OKW is doing just fine at high tier play.


Lets be honest you can win with any faction because your micro , multitasking and insight are leagues above most players. but i dont have the time to invest this much in a game. And your won document show its the ostheer thats is top dog for very good reasons. The OKW is viable but the ostheer is flatout better
19 Apr 2021, 14:40 PM
#23
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12978 | Subs: 1

I have clearly provided the document with Jibber’s statistics from the current Master League tournament.

So according to you a 24 games as okw in ML5 carry more weight than 12k games.
19 Apr 2021, 15:08 PM
#25
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 12:04 PMZyllen

There is a major contradiction here. lv´s and support weapons are underrated but the p4 carriers the faction? so why not use the lv´s or support weapons? the okw LV´s do not fit. All allied faction have access to a light tank that can easily push the luchs/flak ht back with no impact and a lot of fuel wasted. if you go for a puma then you can beat the aec/stuart/t70 but then need to mothball it until the allied medium tanks arrive. all the while the allies gain infantry superiority because you have no obers.

As for the mg34. It works as a suppressor but not as a damage dealer or lv killer. the leigh is just worse than a regular mortar. and the tanks selection of the okw is just inferior compared to the ostheers.

The Flak HT is very powerful and while it can be pushed back it easily bullies Allied infantry. In the hands of a good player it can easily help win map control. The Luchs I'll admit is in a bad spot with regards to timing. I don't think you understand what I meant with the PIV J. OKW doesn't struggle before the PIV J comes out because of bad LVs or support weapons, they struggle because Volks don't scale and Obers have low field presence. The PIV J is so crucial because it stops the bleed.

As for the MG34, it's one of my favorite MGs precisely because it does exactly what an MG needs to do and it its cheaper without the extra unnecessary stuff. The LeIG is pretty bad, yeah, but mortars aren't exactly used that much in 1v1s anyway. And as for the tank lineup, I simply must disagree. While OKW doesn't have a fallback TD like the StuG they do have the only Axis 60 range TD along with the best non-doctrinal medium tank in the game. Allied mediums actually have a chance against the regular PIV but not the PIV J.
19 Apr 2021, 15:29 PM
#27
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 281

gotta love this shit show of a forum... OP complains about something, 5 posts later the usual suspects manage to derail this thread into a circle jerk about who should be prom queen

vote CN and i promise you free choco :blush:
19 Apr 2021, 15:30 PM
#28
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 748

Stop using https://coh2stats.com/ as a benchmark, because it does not show difference in winrates by rank.
19 Apr 2021, 15:32 PM
#29
avatar of IpKaiFung
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1677 | Subs: 2

You won't find the answers in the stats, since game balance is more an issue of perception, rather than fact.

On this basis, seeing OKW perform well in tournaments has a lot more weight than the game stats do.
19 Apr 2021, 15:45 PM
#30
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12978 | Subs: 1

Stop using https://coh2stats.com/ as a benchmark, because it does not show difference in winrates by rank.

It an indication not a "benchmark" and in 12k games thing tent to even out at least more than they do in 24 games.
19 Apr 2021, 15:58 PM
#31
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

It's fun because now it's 12k games, 24 top players games isn't enough, but on the last page, about a 100 1on1 top 200 games was enough for the discussion. Make up your mind!
19 Apr 2021, 15:59 PM
#32
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 756

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 15:08 PMSpoof

The Flak HT is very powerful and while it can be pushed back it easily bullies Allied infantry. In the hands of a good player it can easily help win map control.


This is the same for the m20 or m5 ,properly used lv are indeed dangerous.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 15:08 PMSpoof

The Luchs I'll admit is in a bad spot with regards to timing. I don't think you understand what I meant with the PIV J. OKW doesn't struggle before the PIV J comes out because of bad LVs or support weapons, they struggle because Volks don't scale and Obers have low field presence. The PIV J is so crucial because it stops the bleed.


as the ostheer i can stop the bleed by using mortars and the mg42. if you need a tank for that then that is a problem

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 15:08 PMSpoof

As for the MG34, it's one of my favorite MGs precisely because it does exactly what an MG needs to do and it its cheaper without the extra unnecessary stuff.


so you are claiming that the 10 mp cheaper mg34 is better than the mg42 that does double the damage and gains more vet because he does double the damage?

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 15:08 PMSpoof

The LeIG is pretty bad, yeah, but mortars aren't exactly used that much in 1v1s anyway. And as for the tank lineup, I simply must disagree. While OKW doesn't have a fallback TD like the StuG they do have the only Axis 60 range TD along with the best non-doctrinal medium tank in the game. Allied mediums actually have a chance against the regular PIV but not the PIV J.


Medium vs medium tank in 1vs1 is rarely fatal . it depends on the support the medium tanks get. and i find the ostheer support in the form of pg´s with skres better then the raketten. The most glaring issue with the okw tank selection is that they have no AI tanks and brumbar to break an AT line
19 Apr 2021, 16:15 PM
#33
avatar of bananasplit

Posts: 12 | Subs: 1

well i got more answers than i wanted,my problem was like this:i have 2000 hours in coh2 i play brits my rates are w 730 to l 760,i was top 200 at one point and all was fine i was having good games never had to spam anything or bloob (tho i woudn`t do that.. i`d rather lose) but stopped playin and deranked now at rank 8-9 i have trouble with okw players who more often that not are 200-500hours players,i can see clearly in they`re movement and timings that they don`t know yet what they`re doing,but they go to a point, bloob up, get a some indirect fire and a hatftrack or luchs and spam 3 raketens and just wait for 10 min hoping they will catch my cromwells,while waiting for panther,i cant get close to arty with inf section,the arty from royal artylery is easy to dogde,and matress is kinda late to the party,my problem is that i dont have a good option to dislodge the bloob unless i go for hailmary attack which will be a 50/50 shot depending on where i attack from and how fast he can react,another option would be to wait it out and drain the remaining 200-100 vp but i get frustrated waiting 10 min doing nothing plus fihgting kt and panthers as brits is kinda useless
19 Apr 2021, 16:48 PM
#34
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 255

well i got more answers than i wanted,my problem was like this:i have 2000 hours in coh2 i play brits my rates are w 730 to l 760,i was top 200 at one point and all was fine i was having good games never had to spam anything or bloob (tho i woudn`t do that.. i`d rather lose) but stopped playin and deranked now at rank 8-9 i have trouble with okw players who more often that not are 200-500hours players,i can see clearly in they`re movement and timings that they don`t know yet what they`re doing,but they go to a point, bloob up, get a some indirect fire and a hatftrack or luchs and spam 3 raketens and just wait for 10 min hoping they will catch my cromwells,while waiting for panther,i cant get close to arty with inf section,the arty from royal artylery is easy to dogde,and matress is kinda late to the party,my problem is that i dont have a good option to dislodge the bloob unless i go for hailmary attack which will be a 50/50 shot depending on where i attack from and how fast he can react,another option would be to wait it out and drain the remaining 200-100 vp but i get frustrated waiting 10 min doing nothing plus fihgting kt and panthers as brits is kinda useless


Can you provide a replay for a game were said problems occur?
19 Apr 2021, 19:55 PM
#35
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 12:29 PMVipper

You mean where their win rates are in 1vs1 are close to that of UKF?


You mean these win rates?



These winrates, which say OKW is on pair with all other factions except for UKF, which actually is rock bottom?

And OKW winrates only grow up with game modes, while brit one get laughably low.

Have you forgotten we have access to actual win rates now and your imaginary BS win rates can be instantly abolished?
19 Apr 2021, 20:50 PM
#36
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Reminder that you have to filter, at least for 1v1, with the top200 tab. Stats for all modes includes games from people who are at least top200 on ANY mode.

While this reduces the sample in size by half, it's still a healthy 5K games and both sides are at least top200 while playing a game.


British: 42.6

Soviet: 51.0

USF: 50.7

Wermacht: 52.6

WGerman: 48.6



Pip
19 Apr 2021, 20:57 PM
#37
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580


British: 42.6

Soviet: 51.0

USF: 50.7

Wermacht: 52.6

WGerman: 48.6


Interesting. I think the only thing that can be gleaned from these stats is that Brits specifically are underperforming, given that the game is asymmetrical (In the area of faction locking). Wehr's higher winrate may just be a factor of UKF's being so terrible... though It's pretty weird that OKW has a sub-50% winrate with UKF's nearly being at 40%.

Do you have any statistics regarding particular factional matchups? I think those are the sort of stats we /actually/ need to assess how balanced factions are.
19 Apr 2021, 21:01 PM
#38
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

snip

You're right, I haven't filtered it correctly.

Tho the only meaningful difference is, UKF is even lower then anticipated and OKW does just as fine as all others.
19 Apr 2021, 21:07 PM
#39
avatar of JPA32

Posts: 178

OP is my favorite single celled organism. I played him a couple times about 2 months ago and he makes sure to only build Ass Toms then unga bungas them onto your fuel (6 feet apart so he doesn't "blooob" them ofc) and stays there for as long as possible as he bleeds all his infantry to death. Then gets mad and posts novels of angry profile comments after he only chain builds Cromwells and you just build At guns to zone them out as you cap the map around him.

Try doing literally anything to save your infantry, retreat earlier, build medics, build an LV, adapt and do something instead of playing like a nonfunctioning flowchart. Though last time I tried to help you all you did was talk nonsense and make excuses about how great you are and how I'm trash because you have 2000 hours or something stupid along those lines. In one sentence, the whole reason you get mad that someone is building 14 AT guns against you and winning is because you throw your entire infantry to hold Fuel and they don't have to care about anything else lmao.

Also never stop leaving angry profile comments. My boys and I still laugh about how absolutely ridiculously hilariously wrong they are on basically every front.
19 Apr 2021, 21:21 PM
#40
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12978 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 19:55 PMKatitof


You mean these win rates?

These winrates, which say OKW is on pair with all other factions except for UKF, which actually is rock bottom?

And OKW winrates only grow up with game modes, while brit one get laughably low.

Have you forgotten we have access to actual win rates now and your imaginary BS win rates can be instantly abolished?

I mean this win rate from 12 k games over the last month and I am not imagining anything.
(Actually you are the imagining things and being full of BS.)

https://www.coh2.org/file/19617/stat.jpg
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