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Suggest to remove pre-made commanders

Customise my own commander abilities
Option Distribution Votes
27%
73%
Total votes: 44
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
16 Apr 2021, 06:39 AM
#1
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

Let us pick and choose which abilities to fill up the 5 slots.

Just tweak the CP costs so one can balance strong abilities with larger stacked CP costs.

Done.
16 Apr 2021, 07:00 AM
#2
16 Apr 2021, 07:07 AM
#3
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

They sadly dropped the system back in the WFA period I believe.


16 Apr 2021, 07:22 AM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13186 | Subs: 1

They sadly dropped the system back in the WFA period I believe.


The system would be a nightmare to balance
16 Apr 2021, 07:39 AM
#5
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 07:22 AMVipper

The system would be a nightmare to balance
I don't think it would be problem of balance. More rather relic would not allow such a thing as commanders are purchased commodities.
16 Apr 2021, 08:07 AM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13186 | Subs: 1

I don't think it would be problem of balance. More rather relic would not allow such a thing as commanders are purchased commodities.

If you now see only a few number of commander then you would see only 5 abilities for each faction.
16 Apr 2021, 08:10 AM
#7
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

Yeah i also dont think it will cause balance issue.
Maybe it will cause meta issues, but so far the individual doctrines are not overpowering. They are like the minor abilities buffs you clip on
16 Apr 2021, 08:15 AM
#8
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

I mean sure you may see meme Tiger Tiger-Ace Elefant Spotting Scope and Smoke. But if we make those heavy call-in stacked, so that you cannot call all in (pop cap withstanding), but you have more choices to influence a game!
MMX
16 Apr 2021, 08:36 AM
#9
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 08:10 AMmrgame2
Yeah i also dont think it will cause balance issue.

yeah, what could possibly go wrong?
16 Apr 2021, 08:37 AM
#10
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

It would absolutely cause a balance issue. What if someone equips PPSh Conscripts with SVT's? I'm sure there's more than a few crazy combinations you could come up with.

I think it could be an option for custom games, but not for matchmaking.
16 Apr 2021, 08:51 AM
#11
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 08:36 AMMMX

yeah, what could possibly go wrong?
SVT cons+Guards+Shoks+t34/85+ISU-152??????
16 Apr 2021, 08:58 AM
#12
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

Well how do other customizable games do it then?

I remember a fair amount of games where you build vehicles or robots and so forth with parts that you buy or trade for or whatever and they somehow managed to balance it so why not here?

I'm guessing some OP things would be disallowed like for example only 1 Heavy type vehicle per doctrine, only 1 type of call in infantry/ability and so forth.

Units and abilities could be made, balanced and restricted on an individual basis and then they'd only need to balance individual parts instead of whole commanders and I think people would be more happy if they could customize their own experience instead of being locked into someone else's vision.

Similar to what Steel Division is doing as well.
16 Apr 2021, 09:05 AM
#13
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Well how do other customizable games do it then?

By having meta set in reinforced concrete.

Just check AoE3 deck building.
You'll go off meta(which is 2-3 decks based on access to water on the map and rarely on opposing civ) on competitive game and you'll be rofltomped.

I remember a fair amount of games where you build vehicles or robots and so forth with parts that you buy or trade for or whatever and they somehow managed to balance it so why not here?

Because these are single player games or stuff like mechwarrior, which isn't balanced nor competitive.

There is so much effort being put into not making pre-set combinations dominate or be irrelevant, there is no way to achieve balance with full customization, unless you want to see untouchable meta of exact same combinations in every single game or all of the possibilities being made completely impotent for equal appeal.
16 Apr 2021, 09:11 AM
#14
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 09:05 AMKatitof

By having meta set in reinforced concrete.

Just check AoE3 deck building.
You'll go off meta(which is 2-3 decks based on access to water on the map and rarely on opposing civ) on competitive game and you'll be rofltomped.


Because these are single player games or stuff like mechwarrior, which isn't balanced nor competitive.

There is so much effort being put into not making pre-set combinations dominate or be irrelevant, there is no way to achieve balance with full customization, unless you want to see untouchable meta of exact same combinations in every single game or all of the possibilities being made completely impotent for equal appeal.


Well first off, most people here don't play competitive.

Second, if indeed there are only a few meta combos then what's the difference going to be here exactly to the competitive scene?

Right now there are a few meta combo commanders and that's about it, as you said if you go something else you lose.

So in my eyes it'd be a win-win situation, the competitive people still have their "award winning" strats to play with while more casual players, which are again more numerous, get to experiment, roleplay, have fun and so on and so forth with the rest of the customizable options.

There is absolutely no reason why we couldn't have this system in play by now other than the time for it being way past at this point unfortunately.
16 Apr 2021, 09:25 AM
#15
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8



Well first off, most people here don't play competitive.

Irrelevant, otherwise we wouldn't need balance patches and commander reworks.
You'd be going exclusively against meta or using your own non meta, being clapped hard and spammed forums asking for balance and nerfs, leading to new meta and so on.

Second, if indeed there are only a few meta combos then what's the difference going to be here exactly to the competitive scene?

For one, due to how decks work in AoE3, only about 30% of cards are non meta.
With how it works in CoH2, 95% of all abilities would become irrelevant and at this very moment, in case you have yet to notice, we're working towards making as many abilities viable and desirable as possible, which is not the case of custom builds stacked all with meta options exclusively.

Right now there are a few meta combo commanders and that's about it, as you said if you go something else you lose.

In case you've missed it, we're in the middle of the process of changing that.
And even within the current meta commanders, not all 5 abilities are top of the line when it comes to potency, contrary to stacking custom one with best stuff only.

So in my eyes it'd be a win-win situation, the competitive people still have their "award winning" strats to play with while more casual players, which are again more numerous, get to experiment, roleplay, have fun and so on and so forth with the rest of the customizable options.

For you, sure, you're just a comp stomper, literally anything goes for you and you can't blame balance for losing to AI.
However for people who do play pvp, facing the exact same thing all the damn time is the worst possible outcome ever, again, this is also we had balance patches for last 8 years.

There is absolutely no reason why we couldn't have this system in play by now other than the time for it being way past at this point unfortunately.


Sure, if you deliberately choose to ignore all the reasons against it, I guess there is no reason not.
16 Apr 2021, 09:44 AM
#16
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1140

No way! Balancing nightmare.

There are loads of abilities which when combined would become ROFL stomp OP.

Hull Down + Scopes
Scopes + Frag bombs
Stuka Loiter + Elephant

etc etc etc.

Also I really believe its important you see your opponents commanders on load screen, you remember them (hopefully), if they call early units or abilities, if gives you a pointer what they have picked and you can counter acordingly.

If all commanders were custom, you wouldnt be able to keep tabs/remember what their options where, but also they could fill identical commanders with all the OP shit, just changing a single ability.

So they would ALWAYS have their favorite OP abilities, and just a case of picking the 5th thing they needed each match. Which again, is bad to play against from a tactical/ choice perspective.

16 Apr 2021, 13:05 PM
#17
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 09:25 AMKatitof

Irrelevant, otherwise we wouldn't need balance patches and commander reworks.
You'd be going exclusively against meta or using your own non meta, being clapped hard and spammed forums asking for balance and nerfs, leading to new meta and so on.


For one, due to how decks work in AoE3, only about 30% of cards are non meta.
With how it works in CoH2, 95% of all abilities would become irrelevant and at this very moment, in case you have yet to notice, we're working towards making as many abilities viable and desirable as possible, which is not the case of custom builds stacked all with meta options exclusively.


In case you've missed it, we're in the middle of the process of changing that.
And even within the current meta commanders, not all 5 abilities are top of the line when it comes to potency, contrary to stacking custom one with best stuff only.


For you, sure, you're just a comp stomper, literally anything goes for you and you can't blame balance for losing to AI.
However for people who do play pvp, facing the exact same thing all the damn time is the worst possible outcome ever, again, this is also we had balance patches for last 8 years.



Sure, if you deliberately choose to ignore all the reasons against it, I guess there is no reason not.


It's relevant as far as the money coming in is concerned.

People spend time and money in something like Starcraft or Age of Empires to be competitive, I doubt you'd get the same results if you were to ask the community at large in this game.

Also who are you referring to as "we" here exactly? You're constantly making fun of me but at the same time you're a giant hypocrite because you don't even PLAY the game.

Now you're suddenly making it sound like you're part of the community dev team which I see no possible way of happening, or at least making it out to be like you're doing some God's work on behalf of the community for the betterment of the game instead of trying to troll on these forums.

Do you even have the game installed?
16 Apr 2021, 13:07 PM
#18
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Steamworkshop exist for a reason. Use it.
16 Apr 2021, 13:55 PM
#19
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 712

For gameplay ,yes!
For balance,No.
16 Apr 2021, 14:53 PM
#20
avatar of WebsterBolek

Posts: 37

Fun option but hard to balance.
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