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Hull Down Panther new best TD?

13 Apr 2021, 14:11 PM
#1
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 984

Will be Hull Down Panther the new best TD?
With his armour, penetration, turret and range 62,5.

For me it will be clear choice in team games.
13 Apr 2021, 14:15 PM
#2
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1254

From experience, it works great in 2on2 because of the narrow shape of most maps, and mostly because nobody expects a Hull Down Panther at all.

13 Apr 2021, 14:20 PM
#3
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2203 | Subs: 2

It is already the best TD, I LOVE hulled down Panthers. Damn near indestructible, high range.

Just in live they are a bit janky to use due to them needing infantry to hull down.

I also second what John is saying. On some laney, long maps, Panther will dominate. Especially if you also have a Brummbar or PWerfer to fight back a pesky ATG.
13 Apr 2021, 14:30 PM
#4
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8125 | Subs: 2

Not sure if it will be strong, but i can see it been used depending on map.

When games goes towards late stage, with artillery nuking pak walls into oblivion and fights devolving into TDs, i can see a parked PV in a VP been harder to dislodge.
13 Apr 2021, 15:01 PM
#5
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3060 | Subs: 7

Hull Down Panther has always been very good, but only situationally. In the end the game is dominated by manoeuvre warfare, and digging your tank into a static position causes you to lose the initiative. Hull Down tanks will only work if the enemy plays into your hand. Though this situational use should improve quite a lot now that it will no longer need infantry to dig it in.
13 Apr 2021, 15:05 PM
#6
avatar of Sumi

Posts: 116

I think this deserves a nerf now, 62.5 range panther with 960 HP and 260 frontal armor is way too OP for something coming in at 175 fuel. The TDs not cant even trade with panther in this situation and Allies have to risk bleeding as they dont have a choice.

Remember when ISU was nerfed because 70 range AI was way too OP with a tank that could be made only once contrary to panther.
13 Apr 2021, 15:13 PM
#7
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2203 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 15:05 PMSumi
I think this deserves a nerf now, 62.5 range panther with 960 HP and 260 frontal armor is way too OP for something coming in at 175 fuel. The TDs not cant even trade with panther in this situation and Allies have to risk bleeding as they dont have a choice.

Remember when ISU was nerfed because 70 range AI was way too OP with a tank that could be made only once contrary to panther.

I mean you can always use an ATG.
The ISU was nerfed because it does very high alpha damage plus at 70 range there was literally no way to counter it. Especially with 50 range Axis TDs.
A 62,5 range Panther can still be damaged by 60 range ATGs and Allied TDs. If this is good enough we will see.

If some nerf were needed, I'd go for some delay before a hulled down unit can drive again or some other soft parameter, but no combat stats.
13 Apr 2021, 15:21 PM
#8
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 3017 | Subs: 2

Meanwhile the StuG, Stupa and Elefant are sitting in the corner crying because they're fixed gun vehicles and can't really make great use of hull down.
13 Apr 2021, 15:25 PM
#9
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 734

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 15:05 PMSumi
I think this deserves a nerf now, 62.5 range panther with 960 HP and 260 frontal armor is way too OP for something coming in at 175 fuel.


Since hull down grants 25% damage reduction it isn't 960 HP anymore. It is 1280 HP with 62,5 range and 260 frontal armour. My guess: It will lead to even more artillery 3vs3/4vs4 spam by allied side since especially Priest will be one of the best counters versus this tactic. Bad for gameplay diversity.

I do think KW-1 hull down is the fairest one. Damage reduction + RoF boost is more balanced since it can be still countered by a simple nondoc T3 StuG that outranges it. Let alone ATGs.

13 Apr 2021, 15:55 PM
#10
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 473

If this startegy will prove too strong then getting out of hull down could get some delay, so AT guns could be more punishing against it.
Overall hull down is good, it's just that the two commanders it is in feel a bit lacking when compared to the almighty Jaeger armor doctrine. One of them has recon but no off-map, the other one has off-map but no recon. Also, no scopes either (now that would be super op, imagine hull down + scope).

Btw, both hull down doctrines have command tank too!
13 Apr 2021, 16:31 PM
#11
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3060 | Subs: 7

Meanwhile the StuG, Stupa and Elefant are sitting in the corner crying because they're fixed gun vehicles and can't really make great use of hull down.


StuG, yeah mwah. However the Brummbar has -25/25 gun traverse, that's more than enough to cover an entire VP or whatever frontline area. The Elefant gets an astonishing 87,5 range, that alone in itself can be ridiculously good even if it only gets 1 or 2 shots off, and with its decent -15/15 gun traverse, the end of that cone covers quite a massive area. And since the most popular maps are the laney ones, Hull Down is easily good enough for these two.
13 Apr 2021, 16:36 PM
#12
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1721 | Subs: 1

Regarding Hulldown. Wouldn't it be possible to code it so that it can't be activated in battle (similar to how Soviet Crew Repairs works). I know the balance team added a longer hulldown time so that it's harder to use offensively but wouldn't this be preferable for hulldown's intended role?
13 Apr 2021, 16:40 PM
#13
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 915

If the hull down takes time to accomplish and if going out of hull down takes a couple of seconds, then it's quite fine. You get a static emplacement that will not be able to leave the hull down instantly and engage
13 Apr 2021, 16:53 PM
#14
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 167

Meanwhile the StuG, Stupa and Elefant are sitting in the corner crying because they're fixed gun vehicles and can't really make great use of hull down.


Someone had suggested giving the Stugs camo when in hull down, which would fit with their ambush role irl and give the casemates a good reason to use this ability.

Elephant is too strong with it though imo, and would have to be left as is. Brummbar would require testing but could go either way.
Pip
13 Apr 2021, 17:11 PM
#15
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1290



StuG, yeah mwah. However the Brummbar has -25/25 gun traverse, that's more than enough to cover an entire VP or whatever frontline area. The Elefant gets an astonishing 87,5 range, that alone in itself can be ridiculously good even if it only gets 1 or 2 shots off, and with its decent -15/15 gun traverse, the end of that cone covers quite a massive area. And since the most popular maps are the laney ones, Hull Down is easily good enough for these two.


Perhaps it could be considered to give casemate vehicles (Perhaps barring the Elefant?) a faster "hull down" speed, to compensate for their lack of a turret?

Alternatively: Is it possible for a hull-down vehicle to be given a certain degree of rotational ability? If so, perhaps casemates could be allowed to rotate, say, 45 degrees while entrenched? I expect this would need the layout of their surrounding sandbags be changed, if that's also possible to do.
13 Apr 2021, 23:32 PM
#16
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356

Anyone else find it weird that people are already wanting to nerf the least used ability in the game before we even see how changes affect things?
14 Apr 2021, 01:56 AM
#17
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 254

Anyone else find it weird that people are already wanting to nerf the least used ability in the game before we even see how changes affect things?


Rapid Conscription and Relief Infantry would like to have a word with you.
14 Apr 2021, 03:23 AM
#18
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1661

imo axis hulldown should stay as live game.

for asymmetry and to prevent easily hull down.

making it construct by infantry will prevent power creeping with every updates

maybe give a slight infantry build-time buff. in fact in the 2 commanders, slight buff to P4C with faster XP level up. Will make them good choices
14 Apr 2021, 04:00 AM
#19
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356



Rapid Conscription and Relief Infantry would like to have a word with you.


I've actually seen relief infantry used a couple times tho. I've only seen hulldown in the campaign.

14 Apr 2021, 05:54 AM
#20
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1432

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 14:11 PMAradan
Will be Hull Down Panther the new best TD?
With his armour, penetration, turret and range 62,5.

For me it will be clear choice in team games.
It has always been the best.
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