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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback

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1 Apr 2021, 23:04 PM
#61
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

RAPID CONSCRIPTION need to change, it's unreliable.

Maybe something like to save manpower or cheaper and faster reinforcement.
2 Apr 2021, 04:25 AM
#62
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 716

Could reduce Partisan reinforcement cost?
2 Apr 2021, 08:23 AM
#63
avatar of RintFosk

Posts: 55

B4's firing angle is too low, the shell hits the bushes, building or other obstacles on its way too often
2 Apr 2021, 08:25 AM
#64
avatar of Chukiki

Posts: 112

can I know what tanks now have received damage reduction?
so after all the kv1 wasnt buffed...
U removed damage reduction. Yet u still wanna increase pop 14 to 16.
THat is a nerf and is unwanted
2 Apr 2021, 08:55 AM
#65
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

can I know what tanks now have received damage reduction?
so after all the kv1 wasnt buffed...
U removed damage reduction. Yet u still wanna increase pop 14 to 16.
THat is a nerf and is unwanted

Exclusively pershing now has rec dmg without use of any abilities and for the same reason KV-1 previously had.
And KV-1 wasn't supposed to be buffed, rec dmg was supposed to be swapped for raw health now that CEs can repair faster.
2 Apr 2021, 09:06 AM
#66
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

Spy network not showing for teammates is kinda lame as its one of only real qualities in teamgames for the doctrine.
2 Apr 2021, 09:10 AM
#67
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Spy network not showing for teammates is kinda lame as its one of only real qualities in teamgames for the doctrine.

I also think it makes little sense.
All the change does is making the player communicate position of opposing units, a complete non issue for AT and castrating the ability for RT.
I'd love to see the reasoning behind that particular change.

Was that random dude meme-ing with "op" partisans in team games so "overpowering" to warrant that change?
I can't see reason for it at all myself.
2 Apr 2021, 09:17 AM
#68
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Airborne Guards
Airborne Guards are having their Assault Package adjusted to offer a different playstyle and be viable to their LMG upgrade. The changes reinforce their role as ambushers with a large number of abilities to aid them during combat.

Airborne Guards seem to be a fairly expensive unit to have sitting around waiting for someone to walk into them, and they lack any sort of first-strike bonus that would give them an edge should they open fire on another elite unit. I feel Airborne Guards should be reworked a bit to be more durable (feels like they drop like Conscripts sometimes) and offensive oriented (Soviet Paratroopers were known to fight like hell).


Assault Guards
Assault Guards have been heavily adjusted to be a standalone unit that does not require an M5 to bring the squad to the battlefield. They will now have two upgrade paths they can choose from to fulfill certain battlefield roles. Their abilities and veterancy has also been adjusted to make the unit stand out from other units in the Soviet army.

Glad to see them finally liberated from their Half-Track. I do feel they should remain only in Lend-Lease however, because their western weapons don't fit the doctrinal theme of Anti-Infantry Tactics; especially the Bazooka. I would also give them Elite SVT Rifles that are more like the Riflemen M1 Garand.


B4-203mm Howitzer
The B4-203mm is receiving changes to how the unit functions. The damage has been reduced, in exchange for being able to fire more shells into the target area. This will make the unit more effective at barraging defensive lines, and less reliant on RNG of the first shell.

Finally the meme cannon might be a viable weapon! My only concern is the impact of each shot may have been reduced too much, I doubt anyone will stick around for more than the first, or the second if they're inattentive; so that early damage is very important. Also, Direct Fire might be acting up, so it may be worth looking at:



Conscript Assault Package
Conscripts are gaining another submachine gun to their PPSh-41 upgrade to reinforce their role as cheap close-quarter combat troops, rather than having an equal mix of rifles and SMGs.

This is an ability that's long been out of line with similar abilities. It initially mirrored Grenadier's G43 upgrade but now just looks more like a worse version of Volks MP 40 or various other assault units or upgrades. While another SMG does help it, it still comes later and costs more than it's contemporaries. Maybe add 2 SVT's to even out the DPS lost at long range without adding too much at close range? Or if it's still meant to be contemporary with the Jaeger Light Infantry Upgrade, modify their PPSh's with custom DPS curve that does not go below Mosin-Nagant DPS at long range.


IL-2 Rocket Run
Given the high damage of this ability, we are lowering the penetration of the ability to make the ability less potent - particularly against the heaviest tanks that have limited mobility. Players will now need to set up the rocket run to hit the rear of hostile vehicles to deal high amounts of damage.

This nerf to Rocket Strafe is too harsh, at 80pen it doesn't even guarantee penetrations on rear hits. I feel like this is still trying to target Ram+Offmap on Elefants, and until there is a better way to deal with Elefants or someone can show me how to kill one with only stock units, I will continue to disagree with nerfing these.


IS-2
The IS-2, like other heavy tanks, is seeing its CP requirement reduced. Furthermore, its experience requirements are being lowered to be closer with the veterancy requirements of other heavy tanks.

A small change, but a welcome one. I would personally like to see the IS-2 become more of a contemporary to the Tiger II, as they were adversaries on the battlefield. On the side, I believe the Pershing and Tiger I should also be comparable to each other as the Tiger I was an obsolete model but the Pershing was designed as a modern Medium and only classified as Heavy for political reasons.


M2HB Team Call-In
Call in an M2HB Team for Lend-Lease

A bit weird because the Soviets didn't use M2HB's unless they were already equipped on imported vehicles. I think Kasarov has a far more imaginative ability for this slot with his Universal Carrier idea.



Partysans
Starts with Kar 98ks; slightly worse than Guard Mosins in terms of reload and moving accuracy
Merged into one; now has two seperate upgrade paths
AT Package: Grants 1 Panzerschrek, Vehicle Detection, AT Grenades. 60 munitions
PPsH Upgrade: Unlocks Molotovs, Frag grenades, PPShes and 5 man. 45 Munitions

Partisans seem really weak with this change. They were weak before which is why they were overlooked when all other infiltration units either got axed or nerfed one-by-one. But here we're asking for 45 Munitions to give them SMG's that do half the damage of what Stormtrooper SMG's do for free. I'd like to suggest all infiltration units be reworked like so:



Rapid Conscription
Rapid Conscription is being adjusted. The number of squads it can grant is being lowered. In exchange, Rapid Conscription will provide other boosts such as improvements to build-times and reinforcement speed. Cost and CP requirements have also been adjusted to reflect these changes.

Good change, not perfect, but then again who knows what to do with it? It does help.


SVT Crates
The following change is to delay the SVT Rifles to put this upgrade's timing on par with other weapon upgrades.

Initially was against this, but then I remembered Jaeger Light Infantry Upgrade was also 2CP, so this makes sense. Although, I have to wonder if maybe JLI Upgrade deserves to be 1CP? Maybe I'm just rambling because it's gotten way too late now.


ZIS-6 Cargo Truck
The ZIS-6 Truck has been added to the Soviet faction as their version of the Ostheer Opel Blitz Supply Truck. This unit will allow select Soviet commanders to generate resources over-time, so as long as the truck is protected.

I love this. Really cool to see an Allied Cargo Truck added to reflect their own resource production. Also it's just nice to see the Zis-6 finally being used in Multiplayer.


Reserve Army Tactics
Tank Hunter Partisans replaced with Commissar

Bring back Irregulars as hardened infantry with Obersoldaten Kar 98k's and Grenadier LMG 42! :p


Soviet Shock Army Tactics
ML-20 Howitzer replaced with T-34/85
IL-2 Sturmovik Attack replaced with 152mm Howitzer Strike
Conscript Assault Package replaced with IL-2 Recon Run

I like the T-34-85 being added to a doctrine Shock Troops, it's very good! My suggestion would have been to put Shock Troops into Armored Assault just because they were Body Armor :thumb:

I love the addition of the artillery offmap to the Soviet faction, they were the only faction that didn't have such an ability.

I strongly disagree with removing Conscript Assault Package from the doctrine though. The theme of Shock Army was the heavy-handed use of Submachine Guns. As I've said before the Soviet Faction already has a serious draught of SMG's considering they produced more SMG's than every other country combined! I just don't agree with taking Assault Conscripts away from Shock Army, it's currently the only way to combine Assault Conscripts and Shock Troops, why delete that?


Other things I didn't comment on are good changes or I just didn't feel the need to mention it one way or the other. Overall I very much like how this is going so far.
2 Apr 2021, 09:53 AM
#69
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13287 | Subs: 1



A bit weird because the Soviets didn't use M2HB's unless they were already equipped on imported vehicles. I think Kasarov has a far more imaginative ability for this slot with his Universal Carrier idea.

HMG call in could be replaced by USF M1 ATG call-in minus the AP rounds that would make OP in Soviet Hand. It would make the commander much more versatile.




Partisans seem really weak with this change. They were weak before which is why they were overlooked when all other infiltration units either got axed or nerfed one-by-one. But here we're asking for 45 Munitions to give them SMG's that do half the damage of what Stormtrooper SMG's do for free. I'd like to suggest all infiltration units be reworked like so:

Partisan can fight with rifles just fine and I am not sure if you appreciate the infiltration potential at CP1.

When infiltration was available for JLI at CP 1 it was part of factor that made them OP as hell.

Actually I am not sure if even upgrading to SMG would be a good idea since once Partisan reach vet 2 and get first strike bonuses they will probably be more cost efficient than vanilla grenadiers possibly even LMG grenadiers.

The problem has more to do with commander and less with partisans. Partisans can not and should not be expected to carry the commander to viability.
2 Apr 2021, 10:04 AM
#70
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

Why are u reducing 120mm Mortars relode time they are already powerful.
2 Apr 2021, 10:18 AM
#71
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 10:04 AMOlfin
Why are u reducing 120mm Mortar relode time they are already powerful.

They are doing it, because it -NOT- powerful.
2 Apr 2021, 10:40 AM
#72
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167


They are doing it, because it -NOT- powerful.


And I am obviously asking because I don't see it need a buff to its relode time unless they reduce its damage, plus if u just want to add useless comments, it is better not to add them at all or at least don't reply to my comments
2 Apr 2021, 10:44 AM
#73
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 10:40 AMOlfin


And I am obviously asking because I don't see it need a buff to its relode time unless they reduce its damage, plus if u just want to add useless comments, it is better not to add them at all or at least don't reply to my comments
mortar that has long delays with its shots, takes shit ton of popcap op? I very much doubt. Its not even compareable to something like old pack howi in power.
2 Apr 2021, 10:45 AM
#74
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 10:40 AMOlfin


And I am obviously asking because I don't see it need a buff to its relode time unless they reduce its damage, plus if u just want to add useless comments, it is better not to add them at all or at least don't reply to my comments

Because its fires 50% slower then stock mortar, is much less accurate and does exact same 80 dmg?
2 Apr 2021, 10:47 AM
#75
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

mortar that has long delays with its shots, takes shit ton of popcap op? I very much doubt. Its not even compareable to something like old pack howi in power.


I didn't say it is OP , I said it is fine as it is , and I may be wrong that is why I am asking actually.
2 Apr 2021, 10:52 AM
#76
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167


Because its fires 50% slower then stock mortar, is much less accurate and does exact same 80 dmg?

What do you mean by stock mortar?
2 Apr 2021, 11:09 AM
#77
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 10:52 AMOlfin

What do you mean by stock mortar?


The nondcotrinal 82mm mortar in the soviet T2 building.

- cheaper
- more accurate
- fires faster
- comes with flares at Vet0 (instead of Vet1)

while doctrinal 120mm has...

- better AOE, but mainly only at the far distance that does only 20 damage
- greater range 100 > 80

Atm the nondoctrinal, smaller mortar is the better choice in most situations.




2 Apr 2021, 11:16 AM
#78
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



The nondcotrinal 82mm mortar in the soviet T2 building.

- cheaper
- more accurate
- fires faster
- comes with flares at Vet0 (instead of Vet1)

while doctrinal 120mm has...

- better AOE, but mainly only at the far distance that does only 20 damage
- greater range 100 > 80

Atm the nondoctrinal, smaller mortar is the better choice in most situations.






Thanks for explaining, it really need the buff then.
2 Apr 2021, 11:19 AM
#79
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

This nerf to Rocket Strafe is too harsh, at 80pen it doesn't even guarantee penetrations on rear hits.


That's the point. This cheap ability shouldn't be able to almost oneshot (super)heavies. With the reduced pen, its effectiveness against heavy vehicles will be halved and more in line with its cost. It'll still pen the rear armor of mediums at roughly 90-100% chance. It still has significant deflection damage anyway.
MMX
2 Apr 2021, 11:22 AM
#80
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 10:47 AMOlfin


I didn't say it is OP , I said it is fine as it is , and I may be wrong that is why I am asking actually.


the reload reduction from 5-ish to 3.25 s may sound pretty over the top at first glance, but if you factor in additional delays (wind up/wind down, aim time, etc) it comes down to about a 30% increased ROF. that's pretty substantial for sure but i don't think it is op, simply because we're only talking about the barrage here, not autofire. i'd expect the 120mm to be quite a bit better than the pack howie at close range and about equal at max range with these changes, but we'll see if that turns out to be too powerful. at the very least it's likely that a lot more people will try this thing out again for once after being left in the dust for quite a while, so it should become pretty obvious rather quickly if this buff overshot the mark.
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