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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback

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15 Apr 2021, 08:26 AM
#341
avatar of LSDuffy

Posts: 117

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 22:12 PMKatitof

Same could be said about Sturmtiger, but that didn't stopped it from getting buffs after buffs all the damn time since range nerf.


Really, really good stuff here boss
15 Apr 2021, 12:15 PM
#342
avatar of Chukiki

Posts: 112

SU85 was ruined. I used to use its ability to spot enemies and give it the extra range to finish a tank. But now I never use it because the penalty of speed is just too risky and not worth the tiny sight bonus u get.
Su85 did never need any nerf. It was at the right spot.
No units should get nerfed that are good. By making all good units trash, no unit is good at anything anymore.
Look at Age of Empires, Priests are awesome, Catapults are awesome, archers are awesome, etc. And all balanced.
What do we have in coh2? Su85 is trash, tiger is trash, penals are trash, t34 is trash, kv's are trash, German infra rot half track is trash.
No unit is good at what they are supposed to be good at thats coh2 in a nutshell. its a game full of trash units wiht no fun.
The kv8 is a niche unit, yet it performs worse than any other medium tank at killing infantry. Kv1 was never a great tank, yet they increase its pop count. The only niche unit that was good at its purpose were SHocks, but of course they had to touch it as well and increase its pop level and ruin it. All elite units shoot with potatoes or water and ur better off using the cheapest units and cheesiest tactics.
15 Apr 2021, 16:12 PM
#343
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Patrion 26

Posts: 328

Assault Guards are very squishy, especially compared to other infantry of their type and cost.

They could really use a small buff to make them more viable, especially against tanks.
15 Apr 2021, 18:36 PM
#344
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

Assault Guards are very squishy, especially compared to other infantry of their type and cost.

They could really use a small buff to make them more viable, especially against tanks.

AG are in line with USF paratroopers while being available and being cheaper.
15 Apr 2021, 18:40 PM
#345
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17633 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 18:36 PMVipper

AG are in line with USF paratroopers while being available and being cheaper.

AGs don't have dual bar rifles supporting them.

Stop comparing units cross faction when they have completely different support behind them, which DOES impact units performance, you once again forgot this is not test map 1v1 simulator.

They are also NOT in line with paras, because paras get 4 thompsons, AGs 3 and do worse in same engagements.
15 Apr 2021, 18:42 PM
#346
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 18:36 PMVipper

AG are in line with USF paratroopers while being available and being cheaper.

Likley feels off simply because of the contrast to soviet squads. Paras are there against 5 man rifles so the extra model offers a lot in means of durability. Also being able to reinforce off invisible pathfinder beacons gives them versatility and makes em feel tougher as you can reinforce even on the front (since the beacons don't cost anything you can have em where you need em)

Compare to SOVIET AG are not durable, they are average. All squads have 7 men (well most anyways) and cons can get up to 6. The other smg elite infantry has armour so in the context of the soviet faction AG guards are actually squishy.

How they stack up against other units in other factions is frankly irrelevant because it's not the units in the other factions that they are competing for pop cap with.

I have no feelings towards AG as I have not tried em in this patch, but a squad that can get 3 lmgs shouldn't be indestructible
15 Apr 2021, 19:05 PM
#350
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1853 | Subs: 1

Here's a possible change to the B4.
-Give it a single round HE shot with a large blast radius that is great against infantry and team weapons but only decent damage to armor (more than a ML20 but not to much more)..


This is an interesting idea but I think more along the lines of replacing the Vet 1 Direct fire with some version of the old high damage 1 shell. Gives you more options and the ability to go for money shots. It also effectively functions as an AT shot that’s less situational than Direct Fire
15 Apr 2021, 20:14 PM
#352
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 18:47 PMVipper

Paras do not fight riflemen.

You completely missed his point... He's talking about build orders

He's talking about choosing to build Riflemen vs choosing to build Paras. Pretty clear if you read the rest of the post:
How they stack up against other units in other factions is frankly irrelevant because it's not the units in the other factions that they are competing for pop cap with.

15 Apr 2021, 20:21 PM
#353
avatar of FunPolice

Posts: 132



This is an interesting idea but I think more along the lines of replacing the Vet 1 Direct fire with some version of the old high damage 1 shell. Gives you more options and the ability to go for money shots. It also effectively functions as an AT shot that’s less situational than Direct Fire

Well in theory the bunker buster round would be just that. A high damage money shot that will deal monstrous damage to anything it connects with. Then you would have a standard HE round that is a big explosion, the direct fire, and then a barrage at vet 1. So it would have a lot of abilities that let it be flexible while still having the meme potential to almost 1 shot mediums (but not outright kill them to reduce the frustration from that).
15 Apr 2021, 20:31 PM
#354
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1


Likley feels off simply because of the contrast to soviet squads. Paras are there against 5 man rifles so the extra model offers a lot in means of durability. Also being able to reinforce off invisible pathfinder beacons gives them versatility and makes em feel tougher as you can reinforce even on the front (since the beacons don't cost anything you can have em where you need em)

Compare to SOVIET AG are not durable, they are average. All squads have 7 men (well most anyways) and cons can get up to 6. The other smg elite infantry has armour so in the context of the soviet faction AG guards are actually squishy.

How they stack up against other units in other factions is frankly irrelevant because it's not the units in the other factions that they are competing for pop cap with.

I have no feelings towards AG as I have not tried em in this patch, but a squad that can get 3 lmgs shouldn't be indestructible

AG have the same durability as guards (while being cheaper)
The slightly better durability than Penal while being slight more expensive
They have better durability then conscripts
Only shock have better durability and that is because the have to move to range 10 while AG can fight at mid range.

They are simply not "squishy, especially compared to other infantry of their type and cost" and they are are as viable against tank as Paras are.
15 Apr 2021, 20:45 PM
#355
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 18:40 PMKatitof

AGs don't have dual bar rifles supporting them.

Stop comparing units cross faction when they have completely different support behind them, which DOES impact units performance, you once again forgot this is not test map 1v1 simulator.

They are also NOT in line with paras, because paras get 4 thompsons, AGs 3 and do worse in same engagements.

You have completely missed the point and your post is rather irrelevant.

"Assault Guards are very squishy, especially compared to other infantry of their type and cost."

No they are not squishy the have the same durability as Guards while being cheaper

"They could really use a small buff to make them more viable, especially against tanks."
They are as viable as bazookas paras while being cheaper and available earlier.
15 Apr 2021, 22:28 PM
#356
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

I wonder if T34/85 will take any nerf, correct me if I am wrong:
T34-58 cost 130 feul as I remember and it out perform P4 ausf that cost 140 fuel in every thing and it will always when against P4 ausf in 1v1,so it really need an increase in fuel cost and maybe even nerfing its damage.
15 Apr 2021, 23:13 PM
#357
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 22:28 PMOlfin
I wonder if T34/85 will take any nerf, correct me if I am wrong:
T34-58 cost 130 feul as I remember and it out perform P4 ausf that cost 140 fuel in every thing and it will always when against P4 ausf in 1v1,so it really need an increase in fuel cost and maybe even nerfing its damage.

The Panzer IV is a standard tank available to both factions, while the the T-34-85 is a doctrine locked unit. The T-34-85 also comes in a faction that has the weakest standard tank, and faces two factions that have the strongest overall tank hunter, the Panther, as standard units. The T-34-85 is fine.
15 Apr 2021, 23:54 PM
#358
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 20:31 PMVipper

AG have the same durability as guards (while being cheaper)
The slightly better durability than Penal while being slight more expensive
They have better durability then conscripts
Only shock have better durability and that is because the have to move to range 10 while AG can fight at mid range.

They are simply not "squishy, especially compared to other infantry of their type and cost" and they are are as viable against tank as Paras are.


Its all relative. A few percent better target size isn't terribly noticeable. They may not be "squishy" but they are not durable by soviet standards. They would be incredibly durable for Ostheer. But they sre not Ostheer squads. They are soviet squads, and by that metric they are not really durable.
Paras are tanky, because their base infantry are only 5 models. They have a whole extra man slapped on there and that makes a huge difference.

Everything is relative. And an average 6 man squad isn't anything special for soviet REGARDLESS of how great the same 6 man squad would be for any other faction.

Again I personally don't have an input on how they feel because I have not used them yet, but I can absolutely see the perspective of why some might feel they are underwhelming as RELATIVE to the soviet, they arnt really anything special.
16 Apr 2021, 02:25 AM
#359
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167


The Panzer IV is a standard tank available to both factions, while the the T-34-85 is a doctrine locked unit. The T-34-85 also comes in a faction that has the weakest standard tank, and faces two factions that have the strongest overall tank hunter, the Panther, as standard units. The T-34-85 is fine.


I don't think if a unit is a doctine unit, then it should be better and cheaper too, as you say the Soviet has the weakest standard tanks but with cheapest cost too, now with doctrine they have the best All around medium tank with a cheap cost too? I don't think this make sense, The cost just don't reflect the power and effective of the unit.
16 Apr 2021, 03:19 AM
#360
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 02:25 AMOlfin
I don't think if a unit is a doctine unit, then it should be better and cheaper too, as you say the Soviet has the weakest standard tanks but with cheapest cost too, now with doctrine they have the best All around medium tank with a cheap cost too? I don't think this make sense, The cost just don't reflect the power and effective of the unit.


Cost and power can't always be directly compared, you have to look at what's around it and what it's up against. As I mentioned, the T-34-85 will most likely be up against the Panther, and supported by Conscripts which are lackluster until Vet 3 / 7th Man. When you consider things like this, the cost efficiency makes sense.
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