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Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

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1 May 2021, 09:09 AM
#541
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11978 | Subs: 1

One has to start by moving ST to another commander.
1 May 2021, 09:14 AM
#542
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 831 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2021, 09:09 AMVipper
One has to start by moving ST to another commander.


That would also be a nice solution. But it won't happen, sadly.
1 May 2021, 09:18 AM
#543
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

Alternatively remove manual reload, make it reload automatically and with no animation, and buff health and armor to Churchill Avre levels and change the rocket to have same arc and size/hitbox like its mortar
MMX
1 May 2021, 09:30 AM
#544
avatar of MMX

Posts: 784 | Subs: 1

honestly, has anyone complaining about the ST tried it a bit in the new patch, yet? i found the revamped projectile much easier to aim and a vast improvement over the live version in every respect. it will still collide on occasion with random shot blockers but those instances are much rarer now.
plus, people seem to overlook the vet1 ability for whatever reason. yes it cost munitions and yes it auto-aims, but otherwise it's rather decent and can be used while reloading the main gun.
1 May 2021, 09:39 AM
#545
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2021, 09:30 AMMMX
honestly, has anyone complaining about the ST tried it a bit in the new patch, yet?

Yes

They have a slightly easier time with targets uphill and green cover objects, because the slower rocket makes the projectile rise on the vertical faster per horizontal distance covered. It will still collide like before most of the time, and now the slower projectile makes it even harder to target enemies, so when it works it's actually worse
1 May 2021, 09:47 AM
#546
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 260


Yes

They have a slightly easier time with targets uphill and green cover objects, because the slower rocket makes the projectile rise on the vertical faster per horizontal distance covered. It will still collide like before most of the time, and now the slower projectile makes it even harder to target enemies, so when it works it's actually worse


Have you seen tightrops video? It's only .15 sec difference(slower) in max range and it gets actually faster as it gets to minimum range up to +1 sec.
MMX
1 May 2021, 09:50 AM
#547
avatar of MMX

Posts: 784 | Subs: 1


Yes

They have a slightly easier time with targets uphill and green cover objects, because the slower rocket makes the projectile rise on the vertical faster per horizontal distance covered. It will still collide like before most of the time, and now the slower projectile makes it even harder to target enemies, so when it works it's actually worse


fair enough. the reduced aim time remedies the slower projectile somewhat, though.
i'd still take the beta ST over the live version at any day.

EDIT: what leithianz said in the post above
1 May 2021, 10:00 AM
#548
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 831 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2021, 09:50 AMMMX


fair enough. the reduced aim time remedies the slower projectile somewhat, though.
i'd still take the beta ST over the live version at any day.

EDIT: what leithianz said in the post above


Fair enough! Perfomance of the ST will always be judjed controversly. Some players like it, other don't.
But I think there is also the aspect of fit to the commander:
2 of 3 abilities to improve the performance of your tanks can't be used by the ST. That's bad synergy.

Imo it would be a win-win Situation if the ST would be moved. EA could be much better without it and another 2nd tier commander would be more attractive if the ST would be in the doctrine.

Brits got plenty of ability and unit swaps in this Version. Why can't we not at least test to move the ST to Scavenge (for Nades) or Firestorm (for indendiary Munition)?


1 May 2021, 10:07 AM
#549
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3085 | Subs: 7

There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying the approach of @A. Soldier video

Of course there's something wrong with it. Sure it looks cool and all, but having a mobile heavily armored B4 would be totally and utterly imbalanced.


not to mention on preferably flat terrain if you want to hit something with it

Lots of units are map or area dependant. You can't use an Elefant or ISU properly in city maps either. That's nothing unique to the Sturmtiger even though people like to pretend that it is for some reason.
1 May 2021, 10:18 AM
#550
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 108

Is it completely out of the question to give the ST some of its range back?
Like changing it from 35 -> 40. Giving it a chance to catch infantry off-guard?

1 May 2021, 10:31 AM
#551
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2309 | Subs: 2


Lots of units are map or area dependant. You can't use an Elefant or ISU properly in city maps either. That's nothing unique to the Sturmtiger even though people like to pretend that it is for some reason.

These are different issues though.
In the first case units do not work well because it is intended by map design. In the latter case the ST does not work because if faulty and weird collision detection, which is mostly beyond the player's control. Not to mention that elevations are really really hard to see in the game. If that were a real argument then many maps would not have to be flattened.

Is it completely out of the question to give the ST some of its range back?
Like changing it from 35 -> 40. Giving it a chance to catch infantry off-guard?


That is already implemented with vet (albeit vet4)
1 May 2021, 10:41 AM
#552
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 108




That is already implemented with vet (albeit vet4)


Obviously but ofc. I meant it in the way of it being stock or maybe vet 1 or 2. Ever since the vehicle damage was tuned down (and its stock range) it has become quite tricky to vet that beast. Nothing about the unit is really practical, except as a deterrent but hitting nothing does not give you vet.

At least with vet1 you have some damage to dish out against its designated target, although I rather go for non-doc measures to deal with blobs or hard to kill vetted infantry rather than investing into the ST.
1 May 2021, 11:12 AM
#553
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11978 | Subs: 1

In order for ST to work as SPG it would need to role change.

Instead of squad wiping machine it would have to redesigned as for more utility and wiping power.

Change could include hard cap on killing entities, temp circuital vs vehicles infatry/support weapons ability to heavily damage structures, critical damage on emplacements, more consistent fighting capabilities without firing rocket.....
1 May 2021, 12:07 PM
#554
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3085 | Subs: 7

I think Tightrope's tests should take away any worries about the Sturmtiger.
Elevation and collision issues seem to be pretty much completely fixed.


19:05m



Combined with all the small QoL buffs it got over the last patches, I can genuinely see it becoming too powerful now.
1 May 2021, 12:30 PM
#555
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614



Have you seen tightrops video? It's only .15 sec difference(slower) in max range and it gets actually faster as it gets to minimum range up to +1 sec.


The difference with cutting delay aim time and increasing travel shot is that you can't cancel the shot once it fired.

If the collision issue never existed, the unit would be definetly weaker now.

It should have more armor, maybe with a mobility nerf, and play as an actual frontline tank with suppression to infantry and capped model deaths on main gun rather than a cheesy shotgun that wipes.

Or really slow artillery piece

the unit will never be balanced as it is
1 May 2021, 12:34 PM
#556
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

I think Tightrope's tests should take away any worries about the Sturmtiger.
Elevation and collision issues seem to be pretty much completely fixed.


19:05m



Combined with all the small QoL buffs it got over the last patches, I can genuinely see it becoming too powerful now.


Nvm
1 May 2021, 13:24 PM
#557
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2021, 09:09 AMVipper
One has to start by moving ST to another commander.

Switch ST and JT,then increase ST range to about 50-80 be middle--long range artillery unit,maybe could work(maybe should lock out other heavy)
1 May 2021, 13:30 PM
#558
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614


Switch ST and JT,then increase ST range to about 50-80 be middle--long range artillery unit,maybe could work(maybe should lock out other heavy)

Jt with heat is an issue
I think it would benefit more from switching with Cmd Panther

The team doesn't like the idea of the ST as artillery piece
I think it could at least use a rework to become a lower ROF Brummbar, starting from removing manual reload and trading health for front armor
1 May 2021, 16:04 PM
#559
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5214





Yeah I noticed it STILL collides, on top of having a slower rocket, meaning that it's actually straight up worse.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying the approach of @A. Soldier video, since the rocket is slow and artillery is highlighted in the minimap the moment it starts a barrage.

Tightrope did a segment on the ST in his video about these patch notes, the new one not only hits faster but is immensely more reliable. It shot over all the obstacles in his tests and he's also determined that it hits a smudge faster at max range because of the shorted aim time.

Frankly it looks half decent now.

Edit: I see now it was linked further in the thread.
1 May 2021, 17:24 PM
#560
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 471

The Sturmtiger changes make it actually good, but I noticed that the vehicle would get abandoned if hit while reloading. I thought that was changed in the past so not sure if that is a bug or not.
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