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Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

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29 Apr 2021, 15:54 PM
#521
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273



Vipper showed the real stats. Atm in the monthly breakdown there is a disparity of 6,5% between winrate of OKW and highest allied faction in winrate. The difference to lowest allied fation in winrate is 11,4%. At games with Players above Top200 the disparity rises to 11,7% (best allied faction) to 13,4% (worst allied faction).

I personally think it should be okay if OKW perfomces somehow worse in teamgames than in live.
The only difficulty is to hit the right spots, you have to weaken mechanisms that are strong in teamgames without influencing 1vs1 stats which are a lot closer to beeing balanced.


In addition to that, the stats clearly show that OKW is the most played faction (in addition to the highest win rate).
29 Apr 2021, 16:02 PM
#522
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 823

OKW has Stuka rocket arty which it excellent in dealing with team weapons. It is far from hot in 1v1, in my opinion, but in team games it is absolutely brutal. OKW also has more tools then OST, like late game elite infantry, 60 range TD and stock super heavy that can become the best super heavy with Elite Armor doctrine.


I do think the walking stukka is the biggest problem. OKW having a stock heavy tank or nondoc elite don't really bothers me. In a 3vs3 or 4vs4 one player goes for 2-3 walking stukas while the others tech up for tanks. If you push an early stuka in a 1vs1 its strength is totally nullified by the huge delay of your first tank. Not so in team games, you don't get punished there, just build another one and coordinate with your mates. The crowded laney maps are a wipefest for stuka. It comes at a time were both sides rely heavily on team weapons and infantry combat. It comes long before Katjusha and Panzerwerfer and miles ahead of Land mattress, which gets countered by walking stuka by the way. It is the combination of wiping potential and timing that makes it brutal.
29 Apr 2021, 17:01 PM
#523
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 515



I do think the walking stukka is the biggest problem. OKW having a stock heavy tank or nondoc elite don't really bothers me. In a 3vs3 or 4vs4 one player goes for 2-3 walking stukas while the others tech up for tanks. If you push an early stuka in a 1vs1 its strength is totally nullified by the huge delay of your first tank. Not so in team games, you don't get punished there, just build another one and coordinate with your mates. The crowded laney maps are a wipefest for stuka. It comes at a time were both sides rely heavily on team weapons and infantry combat. It comes long before Katjusha and Panzerwerfer and miles ahead of Land mattress, which gets countered by walking stuka by the way. It is the combination of wiping potential and timing that makes it brutal.


not sure if building a rocket arty in 1v1 that shoots in a line is a good idea, especially while having P4J in your armor roster.

All I'm saying that OKW is far from weak in team games.
29 Apr 2021, 18:33 PM
#524
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1679

Have you tried the Searchlight? Its pretty good and comes with a cheap recon plane, so, yes, OKW has offmap recon NONDOC.
30 Apr 2021, 14:36 PM
#525
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Having a doctrine with a 250/1 or the 251 open top halftrack that OKW should already have in the game files would be nice

Edit: this must be it



Does anybody know if the model is finished and working?

30 Apr 2021, 14:53 PM
#526
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

Having a doctrine with a 250/1 or the 251 open top halftrack that OKW should already have in the game files would be nice


Agreed.

A 250/251 Halftrack and the StuG III/StuG III E are the only units left with dedicated voice lines for the OKW that haven't been utilized yet.
30 Apr 2021, 15:01 PM
#527
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Agreed.

A 250/251 Halftrack and the StuG III/StuG III E are the only units left with dedicated voice lines for the OKW that haven't been utilized yet.

Having a tier 3.5 buildable StuG III in Elite Armor would be nice
30 Apr 2021, 15:12 PM
#528
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Agreed.

A 250/251 Halftrack and the StuG III/StuG III E are the only units left with dedicated voice lines for the OKW that haven't been utilized yet.

By the way, speaking of unused voicelines, there's also FHQ ability (not trucks, actual FHQ) voicelines from the OKW announcer.
It also has lines about converting a Panzer Command vehicle into a stationary FHQ
Shame so much content got gutted, maybe there's still assets of a Panzer IV command tank
30 Apr 2021, 20:16 PM
#529
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3233 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2021, 13:04 PMZyllen
This patch is going to be terrible for the OKW .the last few options to deal with mortar and artillery spam is now gone. this will make the okw completely noncompetitive in team games

That some kind of joke? OKW is over of the best team game factions. And it's been that way for a while
1 May 2021, 03:18 AM
#530
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

Having a doctrine with a 250/1 or the 251 open top halftrack that OKW should already have in the game files would be nice

Edit: this must be it



Does anybody know if the model is finished and working?



This is very cool please balance team add the 251 open top halftrack there is no reason to not includ it all the original voice lines and assets are available.

Edit: it could be added to the fortification doctrine instead of For the Fatherland or ot the spic ope instead of the Sturm officer and it could include Sturm officer inside it with extra cost, OKW lake transport units and this will be great addition.
1 May 2021, 05:49 AM
#531
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

It's in the All Units mod I believe.

Can be upgraded to a medical halftrack as well which is a cool concept if you ask me but it losses it's combat capabilities for faster speed and durability I think.
1 May 2021, 06:53 AM
#532
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2021, 03:18 AMOlfin


This is very cool please balance team add the 251 open top halftrack there is no reason to not includ it all the original voice lines and assets are available.

Edit: it could be added to the fortification doctrine instead of For the Fatherland or ot the spic ope instead of the Sturm officer and it could include Sturm officer inside it with extra cost, OKW lake transport units and this will be great addition.

I would add it to special operations in place of Radio silence
1 May 2021, 07:06 AM
#533
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 834 | Subs: 1


Not impressed by the ST changes. I still think the unit draws down Elite Armor.
Maybe it would be worth the try to make the Sturmtiger a sidetech Option after a full teched t4.
Costs same as for ANVIL / Hammer.

That would free a slot in Elite Armor and OKW Players who like the unit still can get it.
A Long shot, I know...
1 May 2021, 07:16 AM
#534
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3122 | Subs: 7

The real superheavy in Elite Armor is a fully pimped Tiger II with the Panzer Commander (self spotting / 67,5 sight range with Spearhead + artillery) and HEAT shells.

As for the Sturmtiger I would genuinely suggest practising a lot with it. Once you get a good feel for how and when to aim it, it can be a really good unit. On flat maps of course.
1 May 2021, 07:23 AM
#535
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

Ah yes, the highly situational slow manual reload 165 fuel costing turd that you need a lot of practice to actually use and not to mention on preferably flat terrain if you want to hit something with it.

Very nice indeed.
1 May 2021, 07:34 AM
#536
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 113

Gotta love having a defacto waste of a commander ability while the counterpart of the ST, the AVRE, is always a good investment.

It would not be so horrible if the unit was designed differently, not being a shot gun unit but rather a middle range artillery piece.

The biggest problem imo. is the long wind up + being a casemate.

I get the idea of units being situational, but using the ST effectively seems like a dream. Similar to ever gaining the riegel AT-mine on the 223.

Edit: Talking about the live-version of the ST
1 May 2021, 08:35 AM
#537
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2


Gotta love having a defacto waste of a commander ability while the counterpart of the ST, the AVRE, is always a good investment.

It would not be so horrible if the unit was designed differently, not being a shot gun unit but rather a middle range artillery piece.

The biggest problem imo. is the long wind up + being a casemate.

I get the idea of units being situational, but using the ST effectively seems like a dream. Similar to ever gaining the riegel AT-mine on the 223.




The powers that be say no because reasons.

I think it looks and works perfectly fine as shown from the many different angles but as always some nit picky excuse will be brought up as to why it's just simply impossible to do or add.

As it works in the mod right now it cannot move while reloading which is fine by me, if they bump up the cost to something like 200 fuel, keep the limit to only 1, maybe give it an automatic reload for both a QoL thing and balance so it can't relocate after a shot has been fired to balance it out, give it perhaps a longer reload time as well as a "lock down" ability similar to the PE Hummel where it for example can reload faster and has greater range but at the cost of a larger delay before it could move again so there's some sort of counter play there or something like that.

Basically my point is that there's a lot of ways to go at it and play around to balance it but yes, not gonna happen.

Anyway here's the link to the mod for whoever wants to try it out for themselves: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=811084352
1 May 2021, 08:44 AM
#538
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

it can be a really good unit. On flat maps of course.




Yeah I noticed it STILL collides, on top of having a slower rocket, meaning that it's actually straight up worse.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying the approach of @A. Soldier video, since the rocket is slow and artillery is highlighted in the minimap the moment it starts a barrage.
1 May 2021, 08:50 AM
#539
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 113



snip


That looks pretty nice as proof of concept (not sure if I use that phrase right), but I guess it will will stay a dream.

It would require lots of tweaking to put it inline, like you said: incorporating a set up time so that it cant just roll up and instantly clear a VP (Thus some sort of planning is necessary).
And then should it be able to fire out of the base sector if It can't move while reloading? So that off-maps have a chance to counter it or is it enough to be unable to move while set-up and reloading.
Also: Should it have the reload trigger instantly or should you be allowed to decide when to reload etc.

Even though right now is the best time for such big changes with having a long running beta, I doubt there will be a chance and thus the ST will most likely stay a fringe unit.
Unless they manage to somehow make it work reliable (on differing terrain) while still being able to punish units not moved in a certain time frame.
1 May 2021, 09:03 AM
#540
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2452 | Subs: 2





The powers that be say no because reasons.

I think it looks and works perfectly fine as shown from the many different angles but as always some nit picky excuse will be brought up as to why it's just simply impossible to do or add.

As it works in the mod right now it cannot move while reloading which is fine by me, if they bump up the cost to something like 200 fuel, keep the limit to only 1, maybe give it an automatic reload for both a QoL thing and balance so it can't relocate after a shot has been fired to balance it out, give it perhaps a longer reload time as well as a "lock down" ability similar to the PE Hummel where it for example can reload faster and has greater range but at the cost of a larger delay before it could move again so there's some sort of counter play there or something like that.

Basically my point is that there's a lot of ways to go at it and play around to balance it but yes, not gonna happen.

Anyway here's the link to the mod for whoever wants to try it out for themselves: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=811084352

It looks cool, but I'd never want to have that it CoH2.
We're just getting rid of an overly survivable Calliope that was "just" a bad medium in terms of defensive stats. We don't need a movable and precise B4 that is basically unkillable shooting across half the map.
Getting this to a spot that is even remotely "balanced" while still feeling like a Sturmtiger will be next to impossible. We already have Sextons and Priests and those are virtually unkillable despite them having a longer barrage and what is basically LV health and armor stats.
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