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Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

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MMX
28 Apr 2021, 14:59 PM
#501
avatar of MMX

Posts: 828 | Subs: 1

just had the time to test the new sturmtiger changes, and i gotta say it feels much more predictable now. also, as an added bonus the slower projectile speed looks way better. congrats to the balance team for the implementation!
28 Apr 2021, 16:20 PM
#502
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 14:55 PMVipper


mine at vet 5 which is joke.


I was going to say that, mines should be in vet2/3 if you want to see any use of them, this is not a combat unit as many said before and it spend most of its time as a cache unit how you want it to reach lvl 5, I hope they will change that.
28 Apr 2021, 22:35 PM
#503
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 178

The new Sturmtiger seems pretty reliable and therefore good now. But i havent used it against (real) players yet, so im not sure if its broken or not.

About the 221/223. That unit just isnt good against infantry or light vehicles.
-The Kubel is better at supporting squads than the 221.
-The cost of the 223 (i think 320mp and 30 fuel) is way to high for the unit. The combat upgrade is bad. It struggels against Vickers-UC (lol).
-The passiv income boost is good i suppose, but most maps (2vs2) dont allow it to be placed on the fuel. And i wont pay 30 fuel+ 4 popcap to get more munition income.

Nobody wants to give OKW an oppressive light vehicle, so a straight combat buff or timing buff is out of the window.
Imo either adjust the upgrade cost from mp/fuel to munition or let the unit be decent against aircraft (maybe 222 lvl).
29 Apr 2021, 03:40 AM
#504
avatar of WhiteFlash
Senior Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 1265 | Subs: 1



Hi guys,

Clearly there are some people who are not fans of flare here - again if you want to have a conversation about the balance of flare vision you're free to have it, but that's not the thrust of my point-

If flare is moved onto command panther (a lategame unit) the results are:

1) There is no reason to play spec ops commander as is it seems it has worse vision options than any panzerfusilier doctrine, which both have strong late game heavy armor options for team or 1v1 settings along with other strong abilities including smoke bombs. Its other abilities are weak or available on other, stronger commanders

2) OKW as a faction no longer has any off-map vision options. it becomes the only faction in the game which has no commander-based off map vision options. Again, if you have a problem with how the flare ability is balanced that is a separate conversation- having no off map vision options on any of their commanders is objectively a disadvantage and becomes another imbalanced point in coh.

Should spec ops commander be given an airplane based loiter instead? Should the flare be limited to border sectors to match the british flare? Should there be a new vision based off-map ability i have not thought of? These are all options, but i think it is objectively clear that no faction should entirely lack an option that is a given to the rest of the game's factions





+1

Balance team please take a look at this
29 Apr 2021, 03:42 AM
#505
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 22:35 PMGeblobt
The new Sturmtiger seems pretty reliable and therefore good now. But i havent used it against (real) players yet, so im not sure if its broken or not.

About the 221/223. That unit just isnt good against infantry or light vehicles.
-The Kubel is better at supporting squads than the 221.
-The cost of the 223 (i think 320mp and 30 fuel) is way to high for the unit. The combat upgrade is bad. It struggels against Vickers-UC (lol).
-The passiv income boost is good i suppose, but most maps (2vs2) dont allow it to be placed on the fuel. And i wont pay 30 fuel+ 4 popcap to get more munition income.

Nobody wants to give OKW an oppressive light vehicle, so a straight combat buff or timing buff is out of the window.
Imo either adjust the upgrade cost from mp/fuel to munition or let the unit be decent against aircraft (maybe 222 lvl).


+++
29 Apr 2021, 04:51 AM
#506
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 22:35 PMGeblobt
The new Sturmtiger seems pretty reliable and therefore good now. But i havent used it against (real) players yet, so im not sure if its broken or not.

About the 221/223. That unit just isnt good against infantry or light vehicles.
-The Kubel is better at supporting squads than the 221.
-The cost of the 223 (i think 320mp and 30 fuel) is way to high for the unit. The combat upgrade is bad. It struggels against Vickers-UC (lol).
-The passiv income boost is good i suppose, but most maps (2vs2) dont allow it to be placed on the fuel. And i wont pay 30 fuel+ 4 popcap to get more munition income.

Nobody wants to give OKW an oppressive light vehicle, so a straight combat buff or timing buff is out of the window.
Imo either adjust the upgrade cost from mp/fuel to munition or let the unit be decent against aircraft (maybe 222 lvl).

+1

The lockdown ability could be tied to another upgrade, while the armor and health buff could come with just a munition upgrade. This way it mantains the same timing but isn't overly expensive as light vehicle.
The current design punishes players using the 223 as combat unit
29 Apr 2021, 04:58 AM
#507
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

Or they could just introduce a 222 upgrade for the 221 behind a tech lock so if you want to use it in combat you can.
29 Apr 2021, 05:19 AM
#508
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Or they could just introduce a 222 upgrade for the 221 behind a tech lock so if you want to use it in combat you can.

I wouldn't do that, this risks overlapping with OKW light vehicles and create a new meta with a doctrinal vehicle replacing luchs/flak ht. Also the 222 with OKW may prove truly oppressive. I think the only stats upgrade it needs is faster veterancy and kubelwagen mg penetration. The problem with the 223 is that it is EXTREMELY expensive for its performances because of the lockdown ability, which is why i think that giving its armor and health bonuses with just a munition cost is far more reasonable. Alternatively, the lockdown ability may be tied to veterancy 4/5 and the radio upgrade just bring detection, health and armor bonus
MMX
29 Apr 2021, 06:31 AM
#509
avatar of MMX

Posts: 828 | Subs: 1




2) OKW as a faction no longer has any off-map vision options. it becomes the only faction in the game which has no commander-based off map vision options.

+1

Balance team please take a look at this


iirc there are still 2 commanders (luftwaffe and grand offensive) with smoke/recon run available? not the best recon offmap surely but still relatively cheap.
29 Apr 2021, 06:32 AM
#510
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12173 | Subs: 1

About the 221:

Redesign the unit as counter to micro light and snipers. That might include reducing AI, increasing penetration, increasing durability, removing fuel cost, adjusting anti sniper modifiers.

About 223:

Redesign as armor support vehicle. Later timing, some aura, earlier teller mines, signal relay becoming a timed ability.

Move a resource vehicle to scavenger where it fits the theme better.
29 Apr 2021, 06:32 AM
#511
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 112

I would be happy enough if the riegel AT mine comes at a reasonable vet, what's the point of having 5 vet levels if its unrealistic to ever achieve in a regular game.

The kübel has achievable vet req. why cant the 221/3 have it aswell?

29 Apr 2021, 13:04 PM
#512
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 732

This patch is going to be terrible for the OKW .the last few options to deal with mortar and artillery spam is now gone. this will make the okw completely noncompetitive in team games
29 Apr 2021, 13:13 PM
#513
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17536 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2021, 13:04 PMZyllen
This patch is going to be terrible for the OKW .the last few options to deal with mortar and artillery spam is now gone. this will make the okw completely noncompetitive in team games




Poor non-viable team game OKW, whatever will they do!
29 Apr 2021, 14:00 PM
#514
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12173 | Subs: 1

Let try to see they correct stat for the whole month



where OKW have 55.3% and not 71%
29 Apr 2021, 14:02 PM
#515
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 732

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2021, 13:13 PMKatitof




Poor non-viable team game OKW, whatever will they do!


4vs4 is a meme and joke just like your posts. Vipper already debunked you so keep your misinformation to yourself
29 Apr 2021, 14:09 PM
#516
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1090

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2021, 13:04 PMZyllen
This patch is going to be terrible for the OKW .the last few options to deal with mortar and artillery spam is now gone. this will make the okw completely noncompetitive in team games


Which exactly artillery spam? Now, we could even ignore the Katitof slam dunk with the winrates, and focus only on the actual facts:

Artillery spam:
USF:
Doctrinal calliope -> late game, high cost, high pop, will barely fit 2 of them in your roster. With the upcoming nerfs to survivability without anything in return, even easier to deal with.
Doctrinal priest -> Ok, this is proper arty, but trades firepower for mobility, easier to kill with tanks but much harder with offmap.
Pak howi -> 6 man buff is a quasi buff. The moment one model goes down, pak howi stops, even if the model killed is not the one dragging the gun. AOE nerf however left it wanting. Unless you blob super hard, a pak howi (or two) will not really be a problem. Again, if you're not super static and super blobby.

UKF:
Base arty -> long wait time but decent shelling
Mattress -> doctrinal, crew-able and mediocre in the shelling
Saxton -> See Priest, also doctrinal

Soviet:
ML -> with the upcoming CB removal will probably be on par with lefh also doctrinal
Katy -> Great rocket arty, definitely a menace on the field, squishy

Considering mortars. The USF one really does not fit into any viable team game roster. If you lose early engagements, it's just plain better to wait for AA HT and pak howi to clear stuff out, than to rush mortar team and suffer for the rest of the game.

Now 120mm and 81mm mortar on Soviets are quite nice. They do fit into the builds.

Brits have a static mortar emplacement, which I have never seen survive once stukas and werfers hit the field, or vet up past vet1. For anyone with half a brain, a static emplacement is just a free target in teamgames.

Axis on the other hand have stock werfer, stuka. OST has brummbar which is a short range arty that can breakthrough any AT wall with a bit of support.
OST mortar is also generally the best in the game. It has to be considering OST is all about weapon teams.
OKW Leig is also a pretty good. A bit less damaging than pak but much more consistent in the shelling.

So in the end it all balances out and if you struggle to see it, then it's beyond me
29 Apr 2021, 14:16 PM
#517
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17536 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2021, 14:02 PMZyllen


4vs4 is a meme and joke just like your posts. Vipper already debunked you so keep your misinformation to yourself

Debunked what?
OKW is uncontested TOP in team games, contrary to what you claimed.

He simply posted another statistic that SUPPORTS ME.

Just because you are utter garbage with the faction does not mean the faction itself is and we both supported that with stats.

Stop being a clown.
29 Apr 2021, 14:17 PM
#518
avatar of WhiteFlash
Senior Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 1265 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2021, 06:31 AMMMX


iirc there are still 2 commanders (luftwaffe and grand offensive) with smoke/recon run available? not the best recon offmap surely but still relatively cheap.


very limiting, balance team please review and consider a fix that Blitzkreig described
29 Apr 2021, 14:39 PM
#519
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 459

OKW has Stuka rocket arty which it excellent in dealing with team weapons. It is far from hot in 1v1, in my opinion, but in team games it is absolutely brutal. OKW also has more tools then OST, like late game elite infantry, 60 range TD and stock super heavy that can become the best super heavy with Elite Armor doctrine.
29 Apr 2021, 15:48 PM
#520
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 815

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2021, 13:04 PMZyllen
This patch is going to be terrible for the OKW .the last few options to deal with mortar and artillery spam is now gone. this will make the okw completely noncompetitive in team games


Vipper showed the real stats. Atm in the monthly breakdown there is a disparity of 6,5% between winrate of OKW and highest allied faction in winrate. The difference to lowest allied fation in winrate is 11,4%. At games with Players above Top200 the disparity rises to 11,7% (best allied faction) to 13,4% (worst allied faction).

I personally think it should be okay if OKW perfomces somehow worse in teamgames than in live.
The only difficulty is to hit the right spots, you have to weaken mechanisms that are strong in teamgames without influencing 1vs1 stats which are a lot closer to beeing balanced.
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