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Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

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24 Apr 2021, 15:55 PM
#421
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167


They should just change it to a CAS loiter with the falls reinforce gimmick
The suppression run is really TIGHT and limited to a small area and delays the actual CAS which is the reason you pay the muni price anyway


yeah this is a good idea, and I am also ok with just reducing its cost or adding a little buff to units and of course It should keep the falls reinforce since it is cool and it is said in the ability activation voice line.
25 Apr 2021, 06:29 AM
#422
avatar of Blitzkrieg

Posts: 7 | Subs: 1

Hello everyone,

I think this commander patch is coming together nicely & think much of the changes are very positive for the game.

I have a couple of issues though that I am seeing with OKW that worry me that I would argue should be rolled back

Le.FH 105mm

Counter Barrage veterancy 1 ability replaced with Overwatch Fragmentation Airburst shells


I don't have a problem with overwatch artillery as an ability ( I think its a fantastic idea & ability, as it discourages blobbing) but the removal of counter battery is a concern for me. In team games the leFH is not only okw's only heavy artillery option, it is also one of okw's few tools to deal with allied heavy artillery. The counter battery is the main draw here, and in many cases the main reason to use an leFH commander, as allied artillery is generally more powerful than axis options and can be overwhelming. Allied factions have many mobile artillery options, which can easily target the stationary leFH and then move to avoid retaliatory fire (let alone the potential for the leFH to just get eliminated by off-map artillery options) The counter artillery ability is the only redeeming quality to keep the leFH's head out of water in competitive match ups, where units like a priest can fire and move. Eliminating counter barrage would leave okw without a viable option.

I understand the motivation for wanting an overwatch ability however, especially for smaller game modes and think that its addition is a good idea.

As there are 2 commanders available to okw that have access to the leFH, my compromise recommendation is to attach the new 'overwatch' leFH ability to the okw Overwatch commander, while leaving the counter-artillery ability on the Fortification commander. Everybody wins- the overwatch commander's theme is stronger with it's new ability, and the fortifications doctrine also maintains it's defensive theme, while okw maintains the ability to compete in potentially siege-like 3v3 and 4v4 matches.

_________________________________


Special Operations

Artillery Flares replaced with Sturm Offizer


I have seen a bunch of conversation about flares being a less than fun mechanic in the game as there is 'no counter play'. While i think this could be a fair conversation to have, unfortunately every faction in the game has multiple flare options spread across it's commander abilities or unit's abilities, so the ship has sailed on whether or not there should be flares.

That said, at the moment flares are the only real reason to use the spec ops commander. the rest of it's abilities are either available on other commanders or underwhelming. If you cut flares from this commander and put them on the command panther, you make the flares unavailable until the lategame, and the unit still needs to move to where it wants to 'cast' the ability, much like other unit based flares

Meanwhile, panzerfusiliers have access to flares from the start of the game, so there is no real reason to pick this commander for vision, and since it's weak at everything else i would expect it's play rate to drop to nil

The british faction has access to early warning, which is not being removed in this patch (rather it is being adjusted to give vision to one location). Also, all other factions have airplane based loiter vision, which okw does not have (the vision halftrack's ability is abysmal and on a niche unit not really worth building) so okw is left without comparable competitive vision abilities.

My recommendation options are to either:

A) Leave the flare ability on the special operations commander, and nerf it's vision radius or increase it's cost if you feel it needs a nerf, or

B) Move flare to the currently unused salvage commander in place of salvage commander's 105mm Artillery Barrage ability. This could make that commander worth picking, as it's not worth picking in any situation at the moment

Thanks for reading this far if you made it to the end, would be happy to discuss my reasoning further with anyone who is interested.
25 Apr 2021, 12:08 PM
#423
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 748

Kind of wish that med HQ required less fuel. The price of OKW healing is still luxuriously expensive.
25 Apr 2021, 15:22 PM
#424
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



I have seen a bunch of conversation about flares being a less than fun mechanic in the game as there is 'no counter play'. While i think this could be a fair conversation to have, unfortunately every faction in the game has multiple flare options spread across it's commander abilities or unit's abilities, so the ship has sailed on whether or not there should be flares.

That said, at the moment flares are the only real reason to use the spec ops commander. the rest of it's abilities are either available on other commanders or underwhelming. If you cut flares from this commander and put them on the command panther, you make the flares unavailable until the lategame, and the unit still needs to move to where it wants to 'cast' the ability, much like other unit based flares

Meanwhile, panzerfusiliers have access to flares from the start of the game, so there is no real reason to pick this commander for vision, and since it's weak at everything else i would expect it's play rate to drop to nil

The british faction has access to early warning, which is not being removed in this patch (rather it is being adjusted to give vision to one location). Also, all other factions have airplane based loiter vision, which okw does not have (the vision halftrack's ability is abysmal and on a niche unit not really worth building) so okw is left without comparable competitive vision abilities.



I totally agree with this in my opinion spec ops commander was over nerfed, and if they remove the flare from spec ops then they should remove early warning from British too.
25 Apr 2021, 15:32 PM
#425
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1196

but the removal of counter battery is ...
best thing in this patch

Whatever you say that ability promotes nobrain
25 Apr 2021, 20:13 PM
#426
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

Hello everyone, but the removal of counter battery is a concern for me.

Counter barrage gets removed too at UKF. Thanks god these abillities leave the game. Good move.


If you cut flares from this commander and put them on the command panther, you make the flares unavailable until the lategame, and the unit still needs to move to where it wants to 'cast' the ability, much like other unit based flares.

You can argue that it comes too late and should be moved to another unit, but don't bring it back as an independent ability.

The british faction has access to early warning, which is not being removed in this patch (rather it is being adjusted to give vision to one location).

Hopefully they change their mind and remove it completely. Give a flare to Valentine instead, would fit its recon role.


Also, all other factions have airplane based loiter vision, which okw does not have (the vision halftrack's ability is abysmal and on a niche unit not really worth building) so okw is left without comparable competitive vision abilities.

I have some shocking news: IR HT has a nondoctrinal plane loiter abilty. So in fact IT HT gives you huge direct sight and a plane loiter. Other factions would like to have it too.
25 Apr 2021, 20:54 PM
#427
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 116




I have some shocking news: IR HT has a nondoctrinal plane loiter overflight abilty. So in fact IT HT gives you huge direct sight and a plane loiteroverflight. Other factions would like to have it too.


Bruh, imagine any non-doc unit had access to a recon loiter. Shit would be op

FTFY btw.
25 Apr 2021, 21:54 PM
#428
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


I have some shocking news: IR HT has a nondoctrinal plane loiter abilty. So in fact IT HT gives you huge direct sight and a plane loiter. Other factions would like to have it too.

Right? Could you imagine if it was also a free unit you get with tier 4 teching that has nondoctrinal fast off map artillery?
How brokenly OP that would be?
25 Apr 2021, 22:10 PM
#429
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905



Bruh, imagine any non-doc unit had access to a recon loiter. Shit would be op

FTFY btw.


Thx for correction. It is true, it is an overflight similar to Vet0 USF Major. Its not for constant sight but for using an offmap versus a howitzer or a defensive position.

25 Apr 2021, 22:18 PM
#430
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905


Right? Could you imagine if it was also a free unit you get with tier 4 teching that has nondoctrinal fast off map artillery?
How brokenly OP that would be?


Free units are a myth that some kind of players always repeat. USF tech is balanced in itself around its own ressource consumption. You just can't directly compare factions. Its like claiming OKW would get a forward reinforcement point or an AA-Flak by teching for free whereas other factions have to pay for it. Just don't start this please.
26 Apr 2021, 04:25 AM
#431
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



I have some shocking news: IR HT has a nondoctrinal plane loiter abilty. So in fact IT HT gives you huge direct sight and a plane loiter. Other factions would like to have it too.

You are talking like the IR HT is a great vision unit which is not (it is just fine), the major has the same recone ability, also IR vision is not that great for example Vetted 222 or Su-85 give way more direct vision but less wider I guess and they are fighting units too, IR HF is rarely used and it only makes appearance in 3v3 and 4v4 unlike the other Vision units so no not every other faction would like to have it , they have way more better options than it.

I didn't even mention Soviet mortars and snipers. (I don't know what other non doctrine units British and USf have for vision)

Finally I would say OKW struggle with vision and they Over nerfed the spec ope commander that fix this issue while keeping similar ability for British and just adjusting it.
26 Apr 2021, 06:47 AM
#432
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 116

One thing is clear, the call-in flares are stupidly easy to use and too strong. Putting it on a unit is a good move.

One can argue on which unit it should be, but I think its okay on the command panther.

I primarily play 3v3 and 4v4, as OKW I rarely ever go for a panther because of how standoff-ish the games tend to get. A panther will get chipped away from a distance and you are better of with JP4's and and generalist/AI- tank than having panthers.

If the flares go on the cmd.Panther it would give me a reason to get it. Don't get me wrong, I love the cmd.Panther but if it is not one of your 1st or 2nd tanks you wont be able to vet it up properly, thus paying for a more expensive glorified panther.

26 Apr 2021, 07:09 AM
#433
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163

Getting command panther for the sake of flares is just stupid. I would rather get pfusi who can use it and been around longer on the field. No real reason to pick spec ops except for radio silence which is also stupid.
26 Apr 2021, 07:14 AM
#434
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2021, 07:09 AMLMAO
Getting command panther for the sake of flares is just stupid. I would rather get pfusi who can use it and been around longer on the field. No real reason to pick spec ops except for radio silence which is also stupid.


I agree I think this commander has lost all its charms and moved from top tier to the lowest tier.
(Even radio silence was hugely Nerfed which is justified but I don't think it is worth picking this commander because of it)
26 Apr 2021, 07:14 AM
#435
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2021, 07:09 AMLMAO
Getting command panther for the sake of flares is just stupid. I would rather get pfusi who can use it and been around longer on the field. No real reason to pick spec ops except for radio silence which is also stupid.

It is fine now.
As you've said you have PF alternative if you need flares.

CP however should lose its mark target ability, it is a way too strong ability on AT unit.
26 Apr 2021, 08:33 AM
#436
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 837 | Subs: 1

I think the Commando Panther should not be mutually exclusive with the KT. Specops was nerfed very hard so this Change should be given back.
26 Apr 2021, 08:48 AM
#437
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 116

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2021, 08:33 AMSmartie
I think the Commando Panther should not be mutually exclusive with the KT. Specops was nerfed very hard so this Change should be given back.


I agree with the amount of changes it would be fair IMO. given that getting to a point of fielding both is no small investment with teching and costs of each respective unit
26 Apr 2021, 08:58 AM
#438
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 991

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2021, 08:33 AMSmartie
I think the Commando Panther should not be mutually exclusive with the KT. Specops was nerfed very hard so this Change should be given back.


CP+KT is too strong combo for one player.
26 Apr 2021, 11:05 AM
#439
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5277

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2021, 07:14 AMKatitof

It is fine now.
As you've said you have PF alternative if you need flares.

CP however should lose its mark target ability, it is a way too strong ability on AT unit.
swap it with the better designed USF one that helps RNG instead of just raising the stakes.
26 Apr 2021, 14:37 PM
#440
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

The changes to Luftwaffe are great. However the Commader has an horrible off-map that rarely ever works as intended and it's usually wasted munitions.
Since Sector Assault changes Overwatch retained CAS off-map, so a different alternative to turning Airborne Assault into CAS 2 could be having an officer unit. Fallschirmjäger Offizier, identical to Sturm Offizier but with Fallschirmjäger entities instead of Obersoldaten and at Veterancy 5 the Offizier unlocks a fg42 instead of an Stg44 (note that Sturm Offizier StG42 is a Panzergrenadier StG, not a Volks StG). Instead of Target Them and Forced Retreat it has Suppression Run and Fragmentation Run
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