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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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5 May 2021, 15:31 PM
#681
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1489


And on a small side note: Some weapons like HMGs and LMGs have increased penetration. Depending on your opponent, the Shock troop armor is worth less than calculated in a "standard" formula.

to be fair the only time this would really be a concern, if anyone was dumb enough to charge an mg head through it's arch head on. And if one suddenly find them self in front of an AI tank. In both cases Any amount of defense vs these is sort of pointless.
5 May 2021, 15:47 PM
#682
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2319 | Subs: 2


to be fair the only time this would really be a concern, if anyone was dumb enough to charge an mg head through it's arch head on. And if one suddenly find them self in front of an AI tank. In both cases Any amount of defense vs these is sort of pointless.

It is true for the Grenadier LMG as well, and also for pintle MGs which almost ignore Shock armor. The Grenadier squad does about 3-6% more damage (on most ranges) than it otherwise would if the LMG42 had a penetration value of 1. Obersoldaten show similar behaviour. It's not huge, that's why I made it a side note, but overall still worth mentioning.
7 May 2021, 13:10 PM
#683
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 292

I'm just some scrub and my opinions on balance don't matter much. I wouldn't mind seeing a 2nd doctrine with breakthrough equipment and I hope VSL grens are still good though

Also gow are g43s on stormtroopers? Are they good?
7 May 2021, 13:38 PM
#684
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2021, 13:10 PMLewka
I hope VSL grens are still good though

Not really, at all
jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2021, 13:10 PMLewka

Also gow are g43s on stormtroopers? Are they good?

Yes, they are Panzergrenadiers G43, very good, but only come with Elite troops
7 May 2021, 13:47 PM
#685
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 292


Not really, at all

Yes, they are Panzergrenadiers G43, very good, but only come with Elite troops


That is sad to hear. I hope they buff vsl grens a little bit

Good to know. Do gr43's grant extra site to all infantry who use the upgrade?
7 May 2021, 14:00 PM
#686
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2021, 13:47 PMLewka


That is sad to hear. I hope they buff vsl grens a little bit

Good to know. Do gr43's grant extra site to all infantry who use the upgrade?

No
7 May 2021, 14:05 PM
#687
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 292

Oh okay. I thought they did because of the scopes but I guess it depends on which infantry gets the upgrade

And also I am a noob but I am a little concerned that the p4 command tank has lost its blitzkrieg ability for it is very weak in defenses and could use blitzkrieg to get out of trouble, which is why I thought giving it armor skirts might be a good idea. However maybe it is perfectly fine how it is.

And hopefully vsl grens get just a little more tuning but I am not a skilled player only rank 7 in pvp anyway so my opinions are not very relevant. My opinion on vsl is this: if vsl is bad like some people on this forum are claiming it is, what is the point in having a doctrinal upgrade for grens that is worse than the lmg42?

Going to point out that now there are only two commanders with access to light artillery. Just my two cents. Still, looking forward to beta going live, looks promising. Pvp when beta goes live looks exciting and for the most part really liking the new content in beta. It's a lot of fun to test it with friends owo
8 May 2021, 05:31 AM
#688
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 162

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2021, 14:05 PMLewka
Oh okay. I thought they did because of the scopes but I guess it depends on which infantry gets the upgrade

And also I am a noob but I am a little concerned that the p4 command tank has lost its blitzkrieg ability for it is very weak in defenses and could use blitzkrieg to get out of trouble, which is why I thought giving it armor skirts might be a good idea. However maybe it is perfectly fine how it is.

And hopefully vsl grens get just a little more tuning but I am not a skilled player only rank 7 in pvp anyway so my opinions are not very relevant. My opinion on vsl is this: if vsl is bad like some people on this forum are claiming it is, what is the point in having a doctrinal upgrade for grens that is worse than the lmg42?

Going to point out that now there are only two commanders with access to light artillery. Just my two cents. Still, looking forward to beta going live, looks promising. Pvp when beta goes live looks exciting and for the most part really liking the new content in beta. It's a lot of fun to test it with friends owo

vsl can function as budget(lol?) osttruppen where they distract and give vision to your sniper, the only reason to pick this if somehow you need osttruppen-like grenadiers and stormtroopers. Command p4 will have probably had access to light artillery when the patch comes live.
8 May 2021, 07:12 AM
#689
avatar of JPA32

Posts: 178

Unbuff Ostruppen. Nerf Jaeger Infantry Doctrine. (Why does "Jaeger" "Infantry" has Stuka CAS? replace that with something less impactful. Counterattack Tactics maybe? This is genuinely the only Doctrine in the game with 5 highly impactful abilities and that's silly.)

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2021, 05:31 AMLMAO

Command p4 will have probably had access to light artillery when the patch comes live.


They gave it Mark Target over LAB which was probably the correct choice since LAB was super strong.
8 May 2021, 07:30 AM
#690
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 831 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2021, 07:12 AMJPA32
Unbuff Ostruppen. Nerf Jaeger Infantry Doctrine. (Why does "Jaeger" "Infantry" has Stuka CAS? replace that with something less impactful. Counterattack Tactics maybe? This is genuinely the only Doctrine in the game with 5 highly impactful abilities and that's silly.)


Ambush Camouflage and G43 package are sureley not "highly impactful abilities".
Without CAS the Doctrine is mediocre and will not be used anymore.
8 May 2021, 07:45 AM
#691
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2021, 07:12 AMJPA32
(Why does "Jaeger" "Infantry" has Stuka CAS? replace that with something less impactful.

Because the doctrine is barely revelant with grenadiers mg42 being meta and no tanks call in/scopes
8 May 2021, 08:22 AM
#692
avatar of JPA32

Posts: 178



Ambush Camouflage and G43 package are sureley not "highly impactful abilities".
Without CAS the Doctrine is mediocre and will not be used anymore.


I'll admit my Wehrmacht is my worst faction, but I find good use out of G43 Pgrens (and I don't hate patch G43 Grens but I also hate Grens so that might just be me being a shitter.) and Ambush Camo is severely underrated across all factions imo, especially in the late game. Even if they aren't the backbreaking best abilities in the doctrine compared to other factions meta doctrines that usually have 1 or 2 useless to underwhelming abilities.

The real draw of Jaeger Infantry is the 5 Man terminator Gren and Light Artillery Barrage. I kind of doubt that removing CAS would make the doctrine irrelevant since it would still have 2 of the best abilities in the entire faction propping the doctrine up with 2 fairly strong supporting abilities.

My question is when compared to the other Ost doctrines you're either looking to replace Grens with Ass Grens/Ostruppen or you have Blitzkrieg/Spearhead/Lightning War with 1 Great ability, 2-3 serviceable well rounded abilities and some useless trash. Hence why Jaeger Infantry just towers over these in pickrate since you get the Turbo Grens, LAB, Stuka Cas for hyper impact, and a couple serviceable abilities in G43 Pgrens and Ambush camo.

Also German Infantry seems like it fits into the B/SH/LW category too. it's still quite popular and that makes sense since you get a couple powerful abilities and can safely ignore the garbage that is VSL Grens, instead opting for 5 Man pios for that sweet repair rate buff. Only real miss is the Mortar Halftrack.


Because the doctrine is barely revelant with grenadiers mg42 being meta and no tanks call in/scopes


1v1 btw. Also G43's are for Pgrens and I said above I quite like the patch G43 Grens but that could just be me being a turd. Regardless there is some merit to this being the clear favorite doctrine by just about everyone playing Ost and it seems a bit stronger than it's competition. I've seen a couple uses of 222 Spotting Scopes but for all it's vision it seems a bit underwhelming to me since the Doctrines outside of that are kind of empty and the 222 has pretty good vision already (Not to mention if you lose your 222 you're basically firing a blank on your doctrine for the rest of the game unless you rebuild it.)
8 May 2021, 12:41 PM
#693
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 292

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2021, 05:31 AMLMAO

vsl can function as budget(lol?) osttruppen where they distract and give vision to your sniper, the only reason to pick this if somehow you need osttruppen-like grenadiers and stormtroopers. Command p4 will have probably had access to light artillery when the patch comes live.


I just don't see the point in having a doctrinal upgrade to grens that is the same price as lmg42 but worse

P4 Command Tank isn't getting light artillery
8 May 2021, 13:00 PM
#694
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2021, 05:31 AMLMAO

vsl can function as budget(lol?) osttruppen where they distract and give vision to your sniper, the only reason to pick this if somehow you need osttruppen-like grenadiers and stormtroopers. Command p4 will have probably had access to light artillery when the patch comes live.

No they can't because their reinforce cost stays the same
8 May 2021, 15:08 PM
#695
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1045

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2021, 12:41 PMLewka


I just don't see the point in having a doctrinal upgrade to grens that is the same price as lmg42 but worse

P4 Command Tank isn't getting light artillery


how is it worse? Dps increase is not all their is to an upgrade. 7thm man is redgard fine by most, and insanely op according to some.

Vsl adresses a certain weakness of grens. Survivability and field presence. They dont need nor should be 5 men terminators, ost has plenty strong ai options already. And 4 men lng grens do well at range esp shen supported.

Indevidual grenadier models are very strong imo, strongest out of all mainlines again imo. just slapping one extra k98 in their has a lot more impact then slapping a conscript model with mosin in their on a cons squad.
8 May 2021, 15:39 PM
#696
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1489

I say redesign the Jaeger command squad.
Lower their weapon damage to 14 and give them 5 g43's maybe with the same stats a rifle grands or something with better long range or what ever. Them being able 1 volley models is bull.
8 May 2021, 21:08 PM
#697
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17522 | Subs: 8

I say redesign the Jaeger command squad.
Lower their weapon damage to 14 and give them 5 g43's maybe with the same stats a rifle grands or something with better long range or what ever. Them being able 1 volley models is bull.

That would make things so much worse its not even funny.

OG jeagers had 5 G43, it was 2nd most overpowered infantry squad ever concieved in this game right after old OKW Jeagers who outranged all other infantry, had enough sight to utilize it and had passive perma sprint, you could kite to death everything that wasn't vehicle with them, while with ost JLI you would just run up and kill on retreat everything, G43 shoot rapidly enough its irrelevant if they do 16 or 14, they'd have to do 12 or 10.
9 May 2021, 03:02 AM
#698
avatar of FunPolice

Posts: 129

Festung Support is a commander that so far has only gotten a limited amount of discussion but I think it really needs to be talked about as the current form I think is honestly going to kill the commander. The removal of the LeFh will be significant nerf to it's play rate in larger team games and without that we have to ask if the other abilities could be appealing enough to keep the commander useable.
Currently we have the following abilities on the commander and I'm also gonna list other commanders that share this ability.
Mortar Halftrack - Spearhead
Command Panzer IV - Blitzkrieg, Fortified Armor, German Mechanized, Mobile Defense
Forward Resupply Station - Joint Operations
Relief Infantry - Lightning War
Sector Artillery - Defensive

Most of these abilities are already available within other commanders and the majority I would argue are overall more effective than festung support. Whether those other commanders have something like a Tiger, an LeFh, or something else I think overall Festung Support just doesn't have anything that is really pulling me to play it over other commanders. Most of it's abilities are fine but they aren't combined in a uniquely powerful way that makes it worth picking over other commanders. It's just a collection of average abilities that just don't add up imo.

I think the best way to make Festung Support more worthwhile as a pick is to make it an ability unique to it alone. So I wanna suggest removing the Forward Resupply Station from Joint Operations. Joint already has the LeFh which is going to keep it useful in team games to where it doesn't need something like the resupply station to likely see use. This would leave Festung Support as the sole commander to have the Resuply Station making it so if you want this the commander has to be used.

It is not the most thorough change but I would say this would make Festung Support at least a little better. If you want to take it a step further I would probably replace relief infantry with something more impactful as that is still one of the weakest abilties in the doctrine. Maybe it the commander could get Ostruppen Reserves which is otherwise being removed from the game? Idk really what could be done but regardless Festung Support really needs something or it's gonna find itself unplayed as Joint outclasses it in team games due to the LeFh and several doctrines have anything you could want while also being stronger in the smaller games modes. Why would I ever take this commander in 1v1 or even 2v2 when I could take something with a Tiger?
9 May 2021, 04:03 AM
#699
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 292



how is it worse? Dps increase is not all their is to an upgrade. 7thm man is redgard fine by most, and insanely op according to some.

Vsl adresses a certain weakness of grens. Survivability and field presence. They dont need nor should be 5 men terminators, ost has plenty strong ai options already. And 4 men lng grens do well at range esp shen supported.

Indevidual grenadier models are very strong imo, strongest out of all mainlines again imo. just slapping one extra k98 in their has a lot more impact then slapping a conscript model with mosin in their on a cons squad.


I'm not the one saying it's bad other people are. And so I wasn't sure if it is bad or good because I'm low xp. If it is still a viable choice great! That's exactly what I'm hoping for. It just happens to he my favorite gren upgrade so I would be sad if it is not good.
9 May 2021, 04:30 AM
#700
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1489


That would make things so much worse its not even funny.

OG jeagers had 5 G43, it was 2nd most overpowered infantry squad ever concieved in this game right after old OKW Jeagers who outranged all other infantry, had enough sight to utilize it and had passive perma sprint, you could kite to death everything that wasn't vehicle with them, while with ost JLI you would just run up and kill on retreat everything, G43 shoot rapidly enough its irrelevant if they do 16 or 14, they'd have to do 12 or 10.
Buddy, Why do you not think through some of the things you say. So you are saying rifles are OP???
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