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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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28 Apr 2021, 05:19 AM
#581
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1489

Were. P47 got nerfed consistently. Its pretty dang close.

But the ways to counter it are not close. The AA HT costs less, has less pop and comes earlier + it is also a defensive unit so you could put it in the back.
The 222 which comes at around the same time is no where nearly as consistent. And Ostwind comes far later and without vet is not as consistent + both of them are not defensive units.

In terms of pintles both OST and AEF have that option so you cant bring pintles as deciding factor.

USG also has doctrinal m5 as well.
28 Apr 2021, 05:20 AM
#582
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 831 | Subs: 1

After merging so much stuff in "advanced infantry equipment" in Rifle company, mod team should also merge the stun nades in Elite Troops with something else to a Ost version of "advanced infantry equipment".

I would recommend the smoke nade to Pgrens or Schumines to Pios.
28 Apr 2021, 05:24 AM
#583
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1489

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 05:20 AMSmartie
After merging so much stuff in "advanced infantry equipment" in Rifle company, mod team should also merge the stun nades in Elite Troops with something else to a Ost version of "advanced infantry equipment".

I would recommend the smoke nade to Pgrens or Schumines to Pios.

wouldn't schumines at 1 cp be too late.
28 Apr 2021, 05:39 AM
#584
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 05:20 AMSmartie
After merging so much stuff in "advanced infantry equipment" in Rifle company, mod team should also merge the stun nades in Elite Troops with something else to a Ost version of "advanced infantry equipment".

I would recommend the smoke nade to Pgrens or Schumines to Pios.

It could be merged with Breakthrough equipment so it's satchel, smoke and stun
28 Apr 2021, 05:39 AM
#585
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 831 | Subs: 1


wouldn't schumines at 1 cp be too late.


Why? Schu's are usefull in the whole game. If you can't afford Tellers you can at least lay down some at mines.
28 Apr 2021, 05:46 AM
#586
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 831 | Subs: 1


It could be merged with Breakthrough equipment so it's satchel, smoke and stun


+1
28 Apr 2021, 06:49 AM
#587
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17522 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 04:11 AMLMAO
There is a reason why it costs more previously p47 are better.

A couple of patches and years ago maybe, before CAS was buffed and P47 nerfed.

Not anymore for a long time now.
28 Apr 2021, 07:02 AM
#588
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 402


But the ways to counter it are not close. The AA HT costs less, has less pop and comes earlier + it is also a defensive unit so you could put it in the back.
The 222 which comes at around the same time is no where nearly as consistent. And Ostwind comes far later and without vet is not as consistent + both of them are not defensive units.

In terms of pintles both OST and AEF have that option so you cant bring pintles as deciding factor.

USG also has doctrinal m5 as well.


Unless your British, where the solutions are an expensive side tech into a fixed structure, a pricy squishy 0 AT tank, or Lend-Lease.
28 Apr 2021, 08:09 AM
#589
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1489



Unless your British, where the solutions are an expensive side tech into a fixed structure, a pricy squishy 0 AT tank, or Lend-Lease.
This is only between USF and OST. I didn't bring the entire allies and neither should you.
28 Apr 2021, 12:09 PM
#590
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 264


But the ways to counter it are not close. The AA HT costs less, has less pop and comes earlier + it is also a defensive unit so you could put it in the back.
The 222 which comes at around the same time is no where nearly as consistent. And Ostwind comes far later and without vet is not as consistent + both of them are not defensive units.

In terms of pintles both OST and AEF have that option so you cant bring pintles as deciding factor.

USG also has doctrinal m5 as well.


In most cases, you do not choose both of LT + car upgrade / Captain + car upgrade. You have to choose one. Or it will cost as much as 50+ extra fuel & 300+ mp. And AFAIK, LT is the most common pick in 1v1 & 2v2. So you end up with no AA HT in game. While OST can have cheap(30fuel) 222 on field from the early-mid game.(Which is very common in recent 1v1 playstyle), and can(not likely) build ostwind for better AA.

So I'd say, overall they are pretty much on the same side when you talk about AA power.(HMG on tanks)

28 Apr 2021, 12:47 PM
#591
avatar of Kyle

Posts: 317

This post is about the " destroy cover " Pioneer's ability.

Right now there is only 1 Ostheer's doctrine has the ability to grant Pioneer with the power to " destroy cover " (It also come bundle with PG smoke).

Is it possible to make this as default Pioneer ability just like Sapper? Maybe unlock it after building tier 2 or something?

Many Ostheer unit like Grenadier / MG42 need line of sight to fight, I think letting this ability as default ability would be nice for us Ostheer player


P/S: Also please lower the 251 MOP flare to 30 muni, same range and visibility as Soviet Mortar Flare please :D
28 Apr 2021, 12:51 PM
#592
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11981 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 12:47 PMKyle
This post is about the " destroy cover " Pioneer's ability.

Right now there is only 1 Ostheer's doctrine has the ability to grant Pioneer with the power to " destroy cover " (It also come bundle with PG smoke).

Is it possible to make this as default Pioneer ability just like Sapper? Maybe unlock it after building tier 2 or something?

Many Ostheer unit like Grenadier / MG42 need line of sight to fight, I think letting this ability as default ability would be nice for us Ostheer player


P/S: Also please lower the 251 MOP flare to 30 muni, same range and visibility as Soviet Mortar Flare please :D

Destroy cover is very powerful ability that messes up with Map design. It should be available to less units not more.
28 Apr 2021, 14:15 PM
#593
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1671

It should be available to engineer units, thats the point of pioneers
28 Apr 2021, 15:20 PM
#594
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 402

This is only between USF and OST. I didn't bring the entire allies and neither should you.


But CAS can and is used vs all factions. We're comparing 2 loiters, not 2 loiters vs only each other.
28 Apr 2021, 15:49 PM
#595
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1489



But CAS can and is used vs all factions. We're comparing 2 loiters, not 2 loiters vs only each other.

OK then,

Brits got Bofors as well which are just 80 mp more than 222. Despite not having mobility it has better AA, Suppression AI, AV capability. There is no comparable loiter though. So can't really do anything about that.

Sovs have the quad a very efficient AA, AI and with suppression and relatively cheap considering soviets don't have munition sinks. As for Loiter their one is really poerful + the hardest to stop before doing considerable damage.

28 Apr 2021, 22:16 PM
#596
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 156


OK then,

Brits got Bofors as well which are just 80 mp more than 222. Despite not having mobility it has better AA, Suppression AI, AV capability. There is no comparable loiter though. So can't really do anything about that.

Sovs have the quad a very efficient AA, AI and with suppression and relatively cheap considering soviets don't have munition sinks. As for Loiter their one is really poerful + the hardest to stop before doing considerable damage.



I thought the 222 has better aa than pre vet2 Ostwind. But maybe i forgot some patch where that got adjusted. Anyway the 222 has good vision and good aa for its price/popcap and is useful even in the later stages of the game. I rather have a 222 than the Flak-Ht from OKW.
29 Apr 2021, 08:54 AM
#597
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1489

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 22:16 PMGeblobt


I thought the 222 has better aa than pre vet2 Ostwind. But maybe i forgot some patch where that got adjusted. Anyway the 222 has good vision and good aa for its price/popcap and is useful even in the later stages of the game. I rather have a 222 than the Flak-Ht from OKW.

The 222 does not have better AA than Ostwind.
As an AA 222 is not reliable it will not be able to stop most aerial attacks before the have already done some considerable damage. That's not something that you want from an AA.
The Flak-HT vs 222 totaly depends on context. If you want defense 222 can't really hep you, if you wan't kill units Flak-HT can't help. Horses are for courses after all.
29 Apr 2021, 12:25 PM
#598
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 472

Buffs to Osttruppen don't make sense because they are good currently on the live game for their cost. Some people even think they are still overtuned. These buffs go through, Osttruppen Doctrine becomes the best commander in the game and we return to a place similar to last patch, potentially even worse imo because at least Osttruppen used to fall off hard even though they were broken early game. Now they are probably good at all points in the game due to the buffs.
29 Apr 2021, 16:20 PM
#599
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

Osttrupped overbuff aside, G43 Grenadiers aren't that much more viable at all imo. Instead of further buffing their raw power, one could try different option that better suit the ability theme.

Suggestion:
Merge Jäger Light Infantry and Ambush Camouflage, renamed Jäger light infantry training
Replace Ambush Camouflage with Breakthrough Equipment in the Jäger Infantry Doctrine and Encirclement Doctrine, and with Assault and Hold in the Storm Doctrine
29 Apr 2021, 16:36 PM
#600
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 162

.
Osttrupped overbuff aside, G43 Grenadiers aren't that much more viable at all imo. Instead of further buffing their raw power, one could try different option that better suit the ability theme.

Suggestion:
Merge Jäger Light Infantry and Ambush Camouflage, renamed Jäger light infantry training
Replace Ambush Camouflage with Breakthrough Equipment in the Jäger Infantry Doctrine and Encirclement Doctrine, and with Assault and Hold in the Storm Doctrine

I still think vsl is even worse than g43 grens, trading firepower for more mp bleed. Staying power really doesn't make sense as losing a model is almost the same as 4 man grens. This staying power is mostly mainly used snaring stuff which sprint can do better. VSL also cost more than lmg, need extra manpower to reinforce. Meanwhile g43 commanders like JLI can have sprint and will be more useful. LMG still better most of the time.
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