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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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1 Apr 2021, 16:05 PM
#41
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163

Ost P4J vet also never got fixed.

It vets faster than a stock P4.

cuz its more accurate? lol
1 Apr 2021, 16:13 PM
#42
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1523


In the context of OST.
I have SPECIFICALLY mentioned OST because this is OST feedback about OST faction.
OKW could NOT be any more irrelevant to what OST has.
OKW, may it be a massive mind blown moment, is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT faction with COMPLETELY DIFFERENT units behind that panther, making it COMPLETELY DIFFERENT dynamic then that of OST.

Was I clear enough, or should I get a sheet of paper and crayons and we'll try again?

Aha.. really do tell how faction changes the dynamics of your answer? I am very eager to listen.
1 Apr 2021, 16:31 PM
#43
avatar of Flyingsmonster

Posts: 155

So we're removing IL-2 attacks from 2 commanders, replacing it with the shitty IL-2 strafe which can't even do anything it's such a mediocre ability (and IL-2 attacks are similarly mediocre, it can't even wipe an infantry unit that just sits there during the entire duration with the exception of very low health squads)

Yet Ostheer gets to keep the Stuka anti tank skillplanes on 3 commanders, as well as the Stuka strafe which is incredibly powerful on maps like red ball and white ball where it can be called in from the edge of the map in a way that can be essentially unavoidable.

So why is soviet getting punished for their much less powerful skillplanes which only target infantry and basically only force a retreat? Ostheer needs to see changes to its own skillplanes abilities.
1 Apr 2021, 16:36 PM
#44
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 493

Idea: could the luftwaffe officer be turned to be a bit more combat oriented? I mean right now it's a clone of the artillery officer, but with luftwaffe abilites. My idea would be replacing his 4x mp40 guards with 3x fg42s. Now this would make the squad significantly stronger in combat, so it goes without saying that the diversion ability would be taken away. Would make sense considering that the guards already use fallschirmjaeger models.

Also, minor consitency concern: the jaeger command squad is pretty much a 5 men grenadier squad with the G43 upgrade, so, shouldn't their rifle nade also be replaced with a stick nade instead?

Btw, I really like that ostheer got updated with several new repair options.
1 Apr 2021, 16:54 PM
#45
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17536 | Subs: 8


Aha.. really do tell how faction changes the dynamics of your answer? I am very eager to listen.

If you can't tell the massive differences between the factions and their tools after playing them, there is nothing I can say that you would understand.
1 Apr 2021, 17:07 PM
#46
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

It's going to be interesting to see the new Forward Supply point and Self-repair abilities.

Also the Hulldown sounds more useful now as well.

Just hoping for a unique King Tiger or something for Mobile Defense, fits the theme and would help the doctrine get back to a more practical choice in my opinion.
1 Apr 2021, 17:17 PM
#47
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 168

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2021, 16:05 PMLMAO

cuz its more accurate? lol


The numbers required to vet are lower. Accuracy is irrelevant.
1 Apr 2021, 17:31 PM
#48
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163



The numbers required to vet are lower. Accuracy is irrelevant.

first time I see someone complaining about ausf j. lol
1 Apr 2021, 17:47 PM
#49
avatar of VonManteuffel

Posts: 77

Nice patch all in all. I am really looking forward to it!

Luftwaffe Supply seems like a meme commander... it's way too ammo dependent and redundant (Why Napalm and bombs when already having a Napalm run?!?). And I don't understand, why Luftwaffe Offizier comes at 2 CPs and can call in Stuka Strafe run (60 ammo) while this is a ability on its own at 6 CP fur CLose Air Support Commander?!? And on top of that, supply drop is crap, same for Ottruppen commander. How many PaKs and Mg 34s are you gonna call in? This ability gets used 1(!) single time. Thats useless... Change it to a Soviet equivalent that brings some fuel for ammo into base but can be shot by AA.

German Mechanized is absolutely underwhelimg. Nothing for lategame and nothing with high impact. My suggestion: Switch SdkFz 250 with a Mortar HT (like the description already says for years^^) and switch Smoke Run with the new cheaper MG loiter from Assault Support Doctrine. The Mortar HT can do smoke barrages therefore is no need for smoke bombs. And the loiter can easily suppress enemy infantry engagements which gives this Doctrine some offense and defense power. This would perfectly synergize with the Mechanzied theme.
1 Apr 2021, 18:06 PM
#50
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

Also some more ideas for Ostheer from Widerstreit, especially concerning Hulldown and possibly some new unique Trenches for Osttruppen maybe that can also act as tank ditches that slow down vehicles:





And there's also a remove ability in another video for the trenches of course.

Very unique and practical in my opinion, fits Osttruppen's theme of being defensive focused infantry and brings in a new gameplay element with the slowing down of vehicles as well.
1 Apr 2021, 18:41 PM
#51
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2021, 14:43 PMMMX


lol what? that thing is easily one of the best medium tanks in the game... high armor, great ai and adequate at to fight most allied tanks head on.

You are missing the point. How good PzIV J is has to with balance of the unit and it did not claim it was bad, what it bring to the table has to do weather it is worth having a commander slot for it.
The question is worth buying over PzIV? Even if it is could it bring more to the table so people have more reason to build it?

If you compare PzIV and PzIV J at vet 3 the first one is slightly more mobile and has better rear armor(!!!) and the later have better scatter values that basically make better vs infatry.

The unit can be designed to bring much more to the table.

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2021, 14:43 PMMMX

if you want to engage heavies then a panther is obviously the better choice, but for anything else the pziv j is the best ostheer has to offer.

If one want to engage Super heavies Panther should be the choice but Panther is not very cost efficient vs heavies like KV-1, Churchill...

Designing the PzIV J like 76mm Sherman with higher penetration values and lower AI would create a unit that would have a more specialized role.
1 Apr 2021, 20:15 PM
#52
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1

Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine

Air Dropped Medical Supplies
The ability is good but not very player friendly. One drops 3 supplies and has no means of moving them to another a place. The ability need some extra depth.

Possible solution:
Mechanism remains the same for most units but when pioneer and grenadiers picks them up they do not activate.
Instead they temporarily replace their stock medic kit and can be activated on player demand.
and/or
item can be loaded and stored and transported in half tracks and then drop by them.

Air Resupply Drop

Supply Drop Zone being by air resupply drop look to me more like nerf a neutral change at best.

HMG-34 is pointless imo since the superior HMG-42 is available from HQ and the ATG (although allows skipping T2 building) one run the risk of being caught off guard. And the ability is rather pricey since one has to stockpile the manpower and then use even more manpower to man these weapons.

The changes also make the commander share 2 abilities with osttruppen commander which at least has access to os and can probably spare the manpower and theoretically man the weapons with Ostruppen (although with the latest changes even that is not a great idea).

My suggestion about Air Resupply Drop would be replace the HMG with mortar or remove second weapon, possibly replace the Pak with RW for flavor, (reduce the fuel/munition if you have) to but lower price and CP of package.

Luftwaffe Field Officer
Although I like the addition imo the officer would much better suited for CAS since it could easily replace more commander slots at that commander.

In addition it feel make the commander basically overlap with OS while imo being weaker. If find the barrage and Victor barrage to be stronger on the artillery commander.

Since the unit seem to have longer range to its ability and it more of support unit, I would suggest to replace the MP-40 with K98 creating a unit that would fight in the distance. An MP-40 or G43 could replace the luger with vet (or FG-42 on semi auto).

In addition the strafe seem to me to take too long and not be very effective (at frist glance it looked weaker than Airbourne Guards version) . One could consider moving the incendiary barrage here or some sort of call in planes that work similar to the "hold the line" typhoons .

Incendiary Bombing Run
The ability seem still to be lacking compared to its cousin the incendiary barrage (that is a death sentence to ATG and should be toned down a bit to allow ATG to move).

Heavy Bombing Run (new)
Although new abilities are cool this one seem rather odd. Why should a commander that already have an incendiary barrage get a second one? Is it a good idea to allow a powerful off map to a commander with access reckon planes?

Maybe the solution lies in changing the ability into massive area denial tool with planes dropping lesser bomb but for bigger duration.

In sort I am not sure I would pick this commander over osttrupen that seems to have better synergy with the abilities.

So as far as the design goes I would suggest, either moving officer or merging medic kit.
The free slot could be occupied by some of the following abilities:
A version of "mark target"
and/or
The introduction of "Arial" the "tower" from Soviet defense commander. The Arial could offer reinforcement/medic kits/some sort off map/vision recon planes/flares...
and/or
A 1-2 "engineer unit" with 5-6 entities designed similar COH1 that can repair and man weapons.
and/or
Some sort of map that utilities the hold the line mechanics of planes
and/or
the 2 CM AA emplacement.
and/or
A SWS AAHT that can set up similar to OKW base (with inferior stat) and possibly pack and move.
1 Apr 2021, 20:55 PM
#53
avatar of Stark

Posts: 623 | Subs: 1


Heavy bombing run is way too expensive. 300 munition for effectively weaker Air Supremancy (250 muni). Less area coverage, takes hell of a lot time to arrive. Saving grase is that it can come from the map corner and cant be shotdown. UKF planes cant be shotdown either (before they drop bombs) and arrive faster. With a pop on the map, but still.


It will be change to 250 ammo. 300 ammo it's a bug.
1 Apr 2021, 20:59 PM
#54
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1523


If you can't tell the massive differences between the factions and their tools after playing them, there is nothing I can say that you would understand.

Don't try to hind your lack of competence. I said explain your answer so do that.
1 Apr 2021, 23:10 PM
#55
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17536 | Subs: 8


Don't try to hind your lack of competence. I said explain your answer so do that.

I have, you just kept repeating that same line over again. Seems like your record is broken and looping.
2 Apr 2021, 04:08 AM
#56
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1709

while the beta hull down encourages more useage.

imo it is fine to keep live version needing infantry build time.
but give it abilities like brace and perhaps scouting mode like UHU

this keeps the flavor and open more options.

The beta hulldown just makes more poppy tanks and similar to soviet kv1 etc
2 Apr 2021, 04:15 AM
#57
avatar of Tetranet

Posts: 195

So we're removing IL-2 attacks from 2 commanders, replacing it with the shitty IL-2 strafe which can't even do anything it's such a mediocre ability (and IL-2 attacks are similarly mediocre, it can't even wipe an infantry unit that just sits there during the entire duration with the exception of very low health squads)

Yet Ostheer gets to keep the Stuka anti tank skillplanes on 3 commanders, as well as the Stuka strafe which is incredibly powerful on maps like red ball and white ball where it can be called in from the edge of the map in a way that can be essentially unavoidable.

So why is soviet getting punished for their much less powerful skillplanes which only target infantry and basically only force a retreat? Ostheer needs to see changes to its own skillplanes abilities.


The Soviet strafe is already fixed. Read the patch notes and test the beta.

IL-2 Sturmovik Strafing Run
The Advanced Warfare Commander Strafe is being adjusted to provide reliable damage within a target area. Cost has been adjusted to reflect the ability's power, and its potency against soft targets.

Now strafes the target zone rather than units within; deals consistent damage throughout the radius.
Damage from 20 to 5
AOE from 0 to 4; no damage drop-off
Cost from 90 to 110

2 Apr 2021, 05:35 AM
#58
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1523


I have, you just kept repeating that same line over again. Seems like your record is broken and looping.
No you have not. Explain how different faction changes the dynamic of your answer.
2 Apr 2021, 07:48 AM
#59
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2386 | Subs: 2

Riegel mine is still not worth a full commander slot. This mine is already gated behind a vehicle, I think we can safely bundle it with another small ability.
I once suggested the forward observation post, but defense fortifications or breakthrough equipment (buildable by pios) would fit as well.

I am very happy that the Jager Command squad got into a sevond commander (it is one of the best units OST can offer - durable, strong, provides recon but not cheesy), but I am slightly unhappy that of all things the Riegel had to give up one of its two slots. There are many other abilities that occur 3 times and more. If we want diverse commanders, we should swap those high frequency abilities for less frequently used ones, not swap within the lesser used
2 Apr 2021, 08:08 AM
#60
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1

Riegel mine is still not worth a full commander slot. This mine is already gated behind a vehicle, I think we can safely bundle it with another small ability.
I once suggested the forward observation post, but defense fortifications or breakthrough equipment (buildable by pios) would fit as well.

I am very happy that the Jager Command squad got into a sevond commander (it is one of the best units OST can offer - durable, strong, provides recon but not cheesy), but I am slightly unhappy that of all things the Riegel had to give up one of its two slots. There are many other abilities that occur 3 times and more. If we want diverse commanders, we should swap those high frequency abilities for less frequently used ones, not swap within the lesser used

I agree about the riegiel mine suggestions:
Rename Anti tank training

251 planting time was reduced
rigiel now available to PG also
Paks now can cloak with no first strike bonus

Ability move out of Elefant commander
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