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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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Pip
24 Apr 2021, 22:23 PM
#561
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1503


Absolutely disagree. This actually leaves room for elite troops to fill the role of AI unit if some mainlime is wiped. Without veterancy scaling there would be almost no penalty besides the mp cost for losing squads, but it's far from impossible to recover from losing a mainline because many late game units can cover their role


This would work if all factions had nondoctrinal access to elite infantry, but as they don't: Most players will need to just rebuild mainlines if they're lost, unless they pick certain commanders.

This ignores the fact that "mainlines" are vital for snaring purposes as well, they often can't simply be replaced with Elites. (Except for UKF)
25 Apr 2021, 00:59 AM
#562
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5248


Absolutely disagree. This actually leaves room for elite troops to fill the role of AI unit if some mainlime is wiped. Without veterancy scaling there would be almost no penalty besides the mp cost for losing squads, but it's far from impossible to recover from losing a mainline because many late game units can cover their role

I didn't say no scaling. I said lesser STAT scaling more ability scaling.
Elite infantry would be elite because it's elite and has elite stats.
Part of the reason AI elite infantry struggles right now is because standard infantry with vet outperforms elite infantry and during vet gate that wasn't the case.

Some infantry gets Ludacris Stat boosts with vet that ensures that even elite infantry will struggle with them.
Take rifles for example. They get - 23% target size at vet 2 and then another 15% at vet 3 meaning about 1 in 3 shots from a perfect accurate squad is going to miss 1/3 Shots. OUT OF COVER. this means 1 in 3 shots in yellow Cover. That means more or less every volley of an ober squad at a Vetted cav rifle means 16-32 damage. If they get into green cover oh boy...

Vet gate was great for infantry combat because it was positioning and role that defined infantry combat, not vet alone. A fresh squad COULD contest a Vetted squad (well.. That was because it wasn't actually Vetted) but the other bonuses on the squads still made them valuable. Increased ability cooldown and ranges, sprint, self heal. These still provided value and still made units strong.

I feel in CoH3 that's the way forward. Nothings to say a small Stat bonuses but some vet is crazy and leaves little room to replace losses or even upgrade it elite infantry. Hell, look at all the difficulties making obers viable. Their base stats are great! But they are easier to kill than Vetted rifles are! Then add the accuracy buffs and weapon upgrades on top.... That's what I'm saying. Take away/reducd the vet and all infantry is actually viable, replacing infantry is actually possible. Blobs are LESS possible... It's all good stuff frankly...
25 Apr 2021, 03:08 AM
#563
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 298

I'm really bad with Osttruppen and have no idea what I'm doing when I use them! :D

However I see other players make pretty good use of them in pvp
25 Apr 2021, 03:36 AM
#564
avatar of FunPolice

Posts: 130

Has anyone else tried Festing Support with it's new loadout? Honestly the commander overall seems underwhelming. It lost the LeFH which was at least one big appeal to use it in team games and I don't know if the other effects are really enough to replace it. The forward resupply station is nice and all but it still has to be built with a ambient building (which is inconsistent based on map). It hurts how effective the ability can be and tbh this seems to be the primary appeal with the commander.

The other things like Mortar Halftrack and Command Panzer IV are fine things but I could just play other commanders with bigger appeals while still getting those (Spearhead has Mortar Halftrack + Tiger and other things while there are several Command Panzer doctrines to choose from).

Relief Infantry is still pretty meh as an ability even after the buff and sector artillery is meh also.

Unless I'm missing something a second look has made me think this commander is actually pretty bad now. In smaller game modes I would almost always just pick some other commander and in larger team games I have much better options also. Joint Operations and Close Air Support are better than this commander imo and I think those need help also (Joint needs to lose one of it's 3 buildables and CAS needs to get the Luftwaffe Offcier imo).
25 Apr 2021, 05:56 AM
#565
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1525

Should Osttruppen be as weak as they are now. They now have more cost needs tech to be used. Why not redesign them similar to how Panzerfusiliers.

Increase the cost, make em initially 5 men with out of cover de-buff. Then give a tier3 6th man upgrade that also removes out of cover de-buff. And then place a tier 4 mg42 upgrade which is around half the power of the Gren ones.
26 Apr 2021, 00:38 AM
#566
avatar of KT610

Posts: 69

Should Osttruppen be as weak as they are now. They now have more cost needs tech to be used. Why not redesign them similar to how Panzerfusiliers.

Increase the cost, make em initially 5 men with out of cover de-buff. Then give a tier3 6th man upgrade that also removes out of cover de-buff. And then place a tier 4 mg42 upgrade which is around half the power of the Gren ones.


You could give them a bren Gun to represent a ZB vz. 26 LMG instead of a LMG42
27 Apr 2021, 21:11 PM
#567
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1525

AEF: P-47 AT strafe from 240 to 225
OST: CAS from 200 to 225

This is a little bit harsh considering both of their AA capabilities are not the same in terms of consistency.
The Ostwind comes later occupies more pop and is not a defensive unit. And if you wanna bring up pintle well AEF has no shortage pintle either.
27 Apr 2021, 22:58 PM
#568
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 298

AEF: P-47 AT strafe from 240 to 225
OST: CAS from 200 to 225

This is a little bit harsh considering both of their AA capabilities are not the same in terms of consistency.
The Ostwind comes later occupies more pop and is not a defensive unit. And if you wanna bring up pintle well AEF has no shortage pintle either.


Maybe it's needed, not sure.

The changes to some of the old bulletins are nice though I like that ~
28 Apr 2021, 01:39 AM
#569
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1709

AEF: P-47 AT strafe from 240 to 225
OST: CAS from 200 to 225

This is a little bit harsh considering both of their AA capabilities are not the same in terms of consistency.
The Ostwind comes later occupies more pop and is not a defensive unit. And if you wanna bring up pintle well AEF has no shortage pintle either.


yeah no offense but p47 is clearly better than cas, what's the reason for the same muni costs....
28 Apr 2021, 03:07 AM
#570
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 468

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 01:39 AMmrgame2


yeah no offense but p47 is clearly better than cas, what's the reason for the same muni costs....


Probably the consistency difference. CAS is more deterministic than random rockets.
28 Apr 2021, 03:16 AM
#571
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1709



Probably the consistency difference. CAS is more deterministic than random rockets.


i believe the random rockets have homing too. its not like p47 will miss badly.

you can try to dodge p47 and cas but p47 is clearly better

we are seeing the typical balance team double buffs/nerfs ..
28 Apr 2021, 03:21 AM
#572
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 168

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 01:39 AMmrgame2


yeah no offense but p47 is clearly better than cas, what's the reason for the same muni costs....


Other way around.

Both have enough damage to kill a Tiger, but the Stukas have superior weapon tracking to the P-47 Rockets.
28 Apr 2021, 03:27 AM
#573
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 468

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 03:16 AMmrgame2


i believe the random rockets have homing too. its not like p47 will miss badly.

you can try to dodge p47 and cas but p47 is clearly better

we are seeing the typical balance team double buffs/nerfs ..


P47 does not have homing. And it does regularly miss badly. They massively increased scatter a few patches back.
28 Apr 2021, 03:35 AM
#574
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1709



Other way around.

Both have enough damage to kill a Tiger, but the Stukas have superior weapon tracking to the P-47 Rockets.


p47 does have big alpha damages while cas need the enemy tanks to stay relatively unmoved or even a AAHT to nullify it easily

you can't afford to miss a pass for cas
28 Apr 2021, 03:38 AM
#575
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 468

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 03:35 AMmrgame2


p47 does have big alpha damages while cas need the enemy tanks to stay relatively unmoved or even a AAHT to nullify it easily

you can't afford to miss a pass for cas


Neither can P47s? have you tried some USF Airborne recently?
28 Apr 2021, 03:43 AM
#576
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1709

i played against p47 recently,it is still as deadly with the fast alpha strikes and penetration values. you need to vacate the whole area to be safe
28 Apr 2021, 03:52 AM
#577
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 468

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 03:43 AMmrgame2
i played against p47 recently,it is still as deadly with the fast alpha strikes and penetration values. you need to vacate the whole area to be safe


Thats how AT loiters work.
28 Apr 2021, 04:09 AM
#578
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1709

to be fair, it's been too long since i used cas stuka at loiter,but my memory is that its only good if your opponent massed their tanks in one area ready to attack.

scas strifle is more aoe based rather than dead on single unit. a dispersion tool rather than killing blow
28 Apr 2021, 04:11 AM
#579
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163

There is a reason why it costs more previously p47 are better.
28 Apr 2021, 04:12 AM
#580
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 468

Were. P47 got nerfed consistently. Its pretty dang close.
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