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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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22 Apr 2021, 04:55 AM
#521
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563


I tested this and could not replicate results at point blank. Paras won repeatedly.

Strange


Also, guys, carbines are shorter rifles. M1 is a semi auto-rifle. M1A1 Carbine is a carbine. It is smaller, shorter (and fires smaller cartridge, but this is irrelevant to the term). Thus G43 is not a carbine, same with SVT. You can make a carbine out of SMLE, Kar98 or Mosin Nagant by shortening the barrel. The term came from cavalry that used shortened muskets. Although in Russian 'carbine' for some reason is a semi auto rifle.

There is no in game difference between how the various non auto weapons operate. So i did not distinguish between carbine, rifles, semi-auto, bolt action and alike.
22 Apr 2021, 23:09 PM
#522
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 309

Also I hope Close Air Support can get some little buff. I feel like it's gonna be left behind with the buffs to luftwaffe supply doctrine. At least maybe consider the supply drop zone to be more bundled together so it doesn't take so long to resources from it. It would be neat to see something like the luftwaffe field officer in the commander though.


CAS seems like it's in a strange spot right now and could use some adjustments, whenever I've done pvp I've never seen someone use it. Also I never see it used when I watch streamed high rank matches with Wehrmacht in it

But I could be wrong maybe it is good and I just don't know how to use it?
23 Apr 2021, 02:19 AM
#523
avatar of KT610

Posts: 69

the New changes to Osttruppen make them way too strong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOfXAtUA-tQ (28:06)

Perhaps scarp the LMG upgrade give them a upgrade similar to cons mobilized reverses upgrade which would fit better into there cannonfodder role
MMX
23 Apr 2021, 05:04 AM
#524
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 02:19 AMKT610
the New changes to Osttruppen make them way too strong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOfXAtUA-tQ (28:06)

Perhaps scarp the LMG upgrade give them a upgrade similar to cons mobilized reverses upgrade which would fit better into there cannonfodder role


just saw the video and, wow, that's really insane. but instead of nerfing the modifier back to 25% i'd rather reduce the in-cover bonus of the squad by an appreciable amount. that way the MG would still remain a noticeable upgrade without being too strong as it is in the current beta iteration.
23 Apr 2021, 05:17 AM
#525
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 02:19 AMKT610
the New changes to Osttruppen make them way too strong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOfXAtUA-tQ (28:06)

Perhaps scarp the LMG upgrade give them a upgrade similar to cons mobilized reverses upgrade which would fit better into there cannonfodder role


Is it really ? Considering the tests are done on range 30 which is the prime range for LMG42. In any realistic scenario, Conscripts would easily win that just by closing in.
23 Apr 2021, 06:06 AM
#526
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

maybe try lowering the buff from 50% -> 75% to 50% -> 65% or something
23 Apr 2021, 07:01 AM
#527
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Imo one should reconsider the mobile defense commander.

The commander is about to be propelled to one of the best C. PzIV commander with Puma being the vehicle that gain the most from it.

This combination has always been a problem and imo it is about to realize it and removed the C PzIV from the commander (or the Puma...)
23 Apr 2021, 07:41 AM
#528
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

The direction osttruppen are going is simply wrong. They become more more alternative grenadier instead of support unit.

The have become no that great as crew for support weapons.

Once more I would suggest to lose the LMG upgrade, concentrate fire power in 6 entities is not a good design. An upgrade that remove the cover mechanism might be enough to remain relevance in late game.

One can also test changing target size to 1 and adding the 1.25 target size modifier to cover allowing the unit to become good crew for support weapons.
23 Apr 2021, 07:52 AM
#529
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 05:04 AMMMX
just saw the video and, wow, that's really insane




This test was done on live. Of course an LMG squad beats Cons at long range. So do Grens. That's the point of an LMG upgrade. Cons are a close to mid range squad.
MMX
23 Apr 2021, 08:38 AM
#530
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1





This test was done on live. Of course an LMG squad beats Cons at long range. So do Grens. That's the point of an LMG upgrade. Cons are a close to mid range squad.


Well, i think what I (and probably others) found most surprising is by what margin they beat Cons, not really the fact that they did. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears that Osttruppen outperform Grens in that regard quite comfortably, although I have to admit I haven't tested how exactly LMG Grens would fare in the same setup.
23 Apr 2021, 08:51 AM
#531
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Grens do similar if not better. And that's in the exact same scenario, disregarding their much better performance out of cover or using their grenade, or the fact that they can heal on the field after such an engagement.



Whether or not the LMG accuracy change was necessary (I don't play 1v1/Osttruppen myself), their performance in this scenario has barely changed compared to what they already could do in live.
23 Apr 2021, 08:53 AM
#532
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

Can someone quickly remind me how Osttruppen stats work again?

+300% accuracy in cover (only affects the K98)
-50% accuracy for pick up weapons including the LMG42 upgrade (preview changes this to -25%? I don't fully get it)
23 Apr 2021, 08:55 AM
#533
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

-50% accuracy for pick up weapons including the LMG42 upgrade (preview changes this to -25%? I don't fully get it)


They get an innate penalty of 0.5 accuracy for slot weapons. The change gives a 1.5 accuracy modifier for their LMG 42 specifically, so now it has a 0.5 x 1.5 = 0.75 accuracy penalty.
23 Apr 2021, 08:56 AM
#534
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

Thanks!


EDIT:
Just to be sure:
Slot weapons do not benefit from the in-cover bonus?
MMX
23 Apr 2021, 10:19 AM
#535
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

Grens do similar if not better. And that's in the exact same scenario, disregarding their much better performance out of cover or using their grenade, or the fact that they can heal on the field after such an engagement. [...]

allright, in that case i guess everything is working as intended. thanks a lot for taking the time to test and clarify this.
23 Apr 2021, 10:27 AM
#536
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Thanks!


EDIT:
Just to be sure:
Slot weapons do not benefit from the in-cover bonus?

ostruppen are a weird fruit. The have higher accuracy but have 50% penalty in all weapons.

Their DPS out cover is much lower than what you get theoretically by the stats. The penalty basically cut the bonus in cover bonus in half.

Imo not even sure why they use this weird mechanism.
23 Apr 2021, 11:02 AM
#537
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 10:27 AMVipper

ostruppen are a weird fruit. The have higher accuracy but have 50% penalty in all weapons.

Their DPS out cover is much lower than what you get theoretically by the stats. The penalty basically cut the bonus in cover bonus in half.

Imo not even sure why they use this weird mechanism.

Also on the K98s?
So in cover they would have 0.5*3 = 1.5 the accuracy that you would find in the attribute editor.

->
Osttruppen K98 has 0.564 far accuracy
Does this mean they have 0.282 out of cover and 0.846 in cover?
I thought for their K98 they'd get 1.692 in cover.


I thought it was only for slot weapons (picked up ones and the LMG42 upgrade)
23 Apr 2021, 11:03 AM
#538
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1792





This test was done on live. Of course an LMG squad beats Cons at long range. So do Grens. That's the point of an LMG upgrade. Cons are a close to mid range squad.


the meta has long discouraged static engagement. hence such out come is really theoretical. and also why many are still talking about why grens suck
23 Apr 2021, 11:08 AM
#539
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Also on the K98s?
So in cover they would have 0.5*3 = 1.5 the accuracy that you would find in the attribute editor.


I thought it was only for slot weapons (picked up ones and the LMG42 upgrade)

Sort of, in cover bonus is 3 times higher than out of cover but only 1.5 better of theoretical.

The DPS of K98 should look something like this:

Theoretical (does not apply )--->2.42/1.86/1.49/1.20/1.07
No cover--->1.21/0.93/0.75/0.60/0.53
In cover--->3.63/2.79/2.24/1.80/1.60
23 Apr 2021, 11:41 AM
#540
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 11:08 AMVipper

Sort of, in cover bonus is 3 times higher than out of cover but only 1.5 better of theoretical.

The DPS of K98 should look something like this:

Theoretical (does not apply )--->2.42/1.86/1.49/1.20/1.07
No cover--->1.21/0.93/0.75/0.60/0.53
In cover--->3.63/2.79/2.24/1.80/1.60

Are you sure?
I found no notes or references to this, only references to -50% accuracy for slot items. I thought Osttruppen K98 out of cover DPS was lower compared to Grens mostly because they only do half the damage.

I thought in-cover DPS of Osttruppen K98 was limited due to hit chance being capped at 1 and they get a lot of over-accuracy.
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