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Commander Update Beta 2021 - General Feedback

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2 Apr 2021, 10:14 AM
#21
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 253

Maybe we could see updates to unit tooltips, and update the descriptions for the commanders so they are more fitting for their changed abilities? :^)


Also some bulletins are still broken and do nothing at all and could use adjustments/changes. For example dispatch time for Osttruppen does nothing because they are built from the infantry kompanie
2 Apr 2021, 11:11 AM
#22
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11758 | Subs: 1

Selling point of Commanders

Trying get as many commander as possible to be viable is a very tricky business and even if one could create perfectly balanced abilities that would not be enough. There are some commander abilities that are the selling point of commander (or have the potential to be).

For instance lets say "Tiger" is the selling point of group of Ostheer commanders (I could include Tiger ACE here but will not to keep thing simple).
In this case:



As we can see there two commander with Fragmentation bombing and one with Stuka Loiter. Imo this abilities are some of the strongest off maps Ostheer have at their disposal and could work as a "selling point" for other commanders.

Imo opinion removing them from these commander might help increasing the viability of other commander and might also help the "viability" of commander with in the "tiger group". Giving abilities of similar power level within the "tiger" group would also be a health change.
2 Apr 2021, 11:22 AM
#23
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11758 | Subs: 1

Sight increasing abilities

There are number of sight increasing abilities in the game both stock and doctrinal.

Imo a change should be made to all these abilities so their impact is better balanced. I would suggest that these abilities become all timed.

The current implementation has issues.

For instance, the spotting scopes for ostheer have seen changes that make very situational.

A immobile 222 with scopes is very good especially once it reach vet 2.

On the other hand the upgrade is far less effective for other vehicles since it offers no benefit to when they are moving. Casemate have trouble even benefit from it when stationary since when rotating to truck a target the lose the bonus.

In sort I would personally take UKF/OKW tank commander over spotting scope when it comes to tanks since they provide bonus in more situations.

Similar change could be made for other abilities also.

By making sight abilities timed one could fix these and provide useful abilities but will limited time available.

For instance spotting scopes could provide a +10 sight radius for vehicles and an extra ability to provide focus sight but for limited amount of time.
2 Apr 2021, 17:34 PM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11758 | Subs: 1

Many abilities need to have their CD increases:
Incendiary barrage from MHT/Leig
Delayed Fuse Rounds MHT/120mm
WP MHT
Suppression LMG Paras USF
2 Apr 2021, 18:29 PM
#25
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17384 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 17:34 PMVipper
Many abilities need to have their CD increases:
Incendiary barrage from MHT/Leig
Delayed Fuse Rounds MHT/120mm
WP MHT
Suppression LMG Paras USF

Why?
Muni is limiting factor for them.
OKW infiltration nades are exception, not norm for cooldowns on muni abilities.
3 Apr 2021, 15:50 PM
#26
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11758 | Subs: 1

Off maps

There is tendency to change some off map and make them able and to destroy static targets Emplacements/pak43/Lehf/OKW Trucks.

Imo the ability to counter such targets should be reserved to specific commander and be their "selling point".

An example of this is the "Soviet Combined Arms Army" which comes with abilities that are also available to other commander. It main selling point though is the combination of the recon planes with IL-2 bombing that allow him to counter such targets at a price.

On the other hand there are commander "Spearhead Doctrine" who can also use Frag bombing and recon for similar result but also comes with Tiger. Combination like this should be avoid since the Tiger should be the selling point of the commander and not the ability to counter static Targets.

Or for instance the "new" "Soviet Shock Army" make "Soviet Combined Arms Army" obsolete since it can also use the recon bombing combo (cheaper and earlier) while it has superior abilities like T-34/85.

Imo the ability to destroy such structures cost effectively with Off maps should be only be available to specific commanders and not in commander that have other selling points (like super heavies, rocket artillery, SPG,...)

3 Apr 2021, 15:55 PM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17384 | Subs: 8

Vipper got finally a good idea there.

We should do a similar thing as with lefh and swap Tiger out of 5 out of 7 doctrines for something else, there is no need for so many doctrines with tiger as selling point.
3 Apr 2021, 16:27 PM
#28
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1247

I for once I agree with Vipper. There are too many commanders on OST and SOV which have more or less the same load, but with a few variations. Katitof brings another good example. There should be more variation, and not the same thing over and over again. Less tigers, less lefh, more diversity!
3 Apr 2021, 17:06 PM
#29
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 900

Skillplanes across the board need to feel the swing of righteous nerfhammer
3 Apr 2021, 18:15 PM
#30
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 3017 | Subs: 2

Sure.

Remove the best known and most popular tank of WW2 from 4 commanders and gut Ostheer's core doctrine choice.

Why the hell not.

All for the sake of "muh diversity".
3 Apr 2021, 18:18 PM
#31
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17384 | Subs: 8

Sure.

Remove the best known and most popular tank of WW2 from 4 commanders and gut Ostheer's core doctrine choice.

Why the hell not.

All for the sake of "muh diversity".

It will make it more unique and desirable, because it won't be all over the place, being a common unit.
3 Apr 2021, 18:23 PM
#32
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 3017 | Subs: 2


It will make it more unique and desirable, because it won't be all over the place, being a common unit.


Sure.

Why not go ahead and remove the Churchill Croc from all 3 of it's current doctrines for the British as well.

Or the T-34/85 for the Soviets as well.

Just because the Pershing, E8 and other tanks are in singular doctrines doesn't make them good, "unique" or more desirable.

It makes them less of a good choice because they're stuck in shitty doctrines.

Not to mention that as far as I'm aware these updates should add more content and options to the game for people to enjoy, not remove already present and well known ones.

Because not everybody wants to feel like a special snowflake with his commander that he picked just because of 1 tank.
Pip
3 Apr 2021, 18:28 PM
#33
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1290



Sure.

Why not go ahead and remove the Churchill Croc from all 3 of it's current doctrines for the British as well.

Or the T-34/85 for the Soviets as well.

Just because the Pershing, E8 and other tanks are in singular doctrines doesn't make them good, "unique" or more desirable.

It makes them less of a good choice because they're stuck in shitty doctrines.

Not to mention that as far as I'm aware these updates should add more content and options to the game for people to enjoy, not remove already present and well known ones.

Because not everybody wants to feel like a special snowflake with his commander that he picked just because of 1 tank.


Part of the issue is the sheer number of doctrines (Especially for SOV and OST) relative to the number of doctrinal units to sprinkle between them. It's too late now, but honestly the number of Commanders ought to have been pared down, or the number of unique units ought to have been increased so that no two doctrines share anything.

3 Apr 2021, 18:32 PM
#34
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 3017 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Apr 2021, 18:28 PMPip


Part of the issue is the sheer number of doctrines (Especially for SOV and OST) relative to the number of doctrinal units to sprinkle between them. It's too late now, but honestly the number of Commanders ought to have been pared down, or the number of unique units ought to have been increased so that no two doctrines share anything.



Yeah and I agree.

If it were up to me I would have included a Porsche Tiger for example, which would basically be the Elefant/Ferdinand with a Tiger turret as a unique unit for an Ostheer doctrine.

Maybe a Wespe or Grille as Self-propelled artillery.

The Sherman Jumbo for the USF as I've already mentioned on several places here already.

For the Soviets like somebody else said the SU-100 and BS-3 perhaps as well.

Stuff like the Hummel, Jagdpanther and so forth for the OKW.

This would of course all require new models and thus up to Relic but as you said, it's too late now sadly for that.

But there's definitely a lot more that can be done that adds options and actual diversity and uniqueness rather than removing units and abilities from already present and established commanders.
Pip
3 Apr 2021, 18:47 PM
#35
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1290


But there's definitely a lot more that can be done that adds options and actual diversity and uniqueness rather than removing units and abilities from already present and established commanders.


True, but removing units from doctrines can be necessary for Balance purposes, unfortunately. (This is partially caused by doctrines sharing units, actually. It's easier to remove and replace an unit than rebalance the unit directly, as you are simultaneously rebalancing multiple doctrines.)

A lot of this might also be solved if, as we discussed in another thread, Lelic just allowed us to import models/textures again. There's little stopping the balance team adding any of the units you mentioned, other than the inability to add the assets.

And the effort required to design them, obviously.
3 Apr 2021, 19:05 PM
#36
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 3017 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Apr 2021, 18:47 PMPip


True, but removing units from doctrines can be necessary for Balance purposes, unfortunately. (This is partially caused by doctrines sharing units, actually. It's easier to remove and replace an unit than rebalance the unit directly, as you are simultaneously rebalancing multiple doctrines.)

A lot of this might also be solved if, as we discussed in another thread, Lelic just allowed us to import models/textures again. There's little stopping the balance team adding any of the units you mentioned, other than the inability to add the assets.

And the effort required to design them, obviously.


Agreed, but there's also been plenty of instances where things were changed up and not necessarily needed to be removed in order to balance things as well.

Things like for example Relief Infantry for Ostheer and Conscription for the Soviets are 2 abilities which I would call exceptions because they're going against the game's design of encouraging the player to preserve his units rather than blindly charge them at the enemy and so should be either replaced or removed in my opinion.

Which actually reminded me of Allied War Machine for the US back in the old CoH, didn't make much sense back then either for the "zombie tank" ability.

There was no way to counter it either besides trying not to destroy the enemy units which was very hard and the US player could freely make a large offensive because even if he lost his tanks he'd get new ones and just keep on pushing since it also had a large timer.

And then it was nerfed to only you getting 2 Shermans back for whatever tanks that were destroyed for 200 munitions.
4 Apr 2021, 14:16 PM
#37
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11758 | Subs: 1

SMG troops

SMG troops are rather to get right, they either walk up to other infantry and force retreat or die like fly on the road.

Suggestion:
SMG now are redesigned to relay more on abilities and less on base stat.

The are already to good abilities that can be used and can be expanded to other units:

"Diversion" with +25% accuracy on the move,-20% received accuracy

"Light Smoke Grenade" -50% received accuracy in smoke (the old implementation without the sight blocker)

These and similar abilities should become available to SMG and replace normal smoke grenades to better fine tune this troops
5 Apr 2021, 04:39 AM
#38
avatar of marius

Posts: 28

good night I like most of the changes, and I know this is not the place to talk about this but what do you think does the US forces need a sniper? I would like to see a USF sniper, I play a lot with this faction but I think it lacks to accompany the M2HB's supreme fire .50 cal, well this is in case there is a future of general changes in the game.
The only thing that would change the Pathfinders is like in COH1 of the English who make a casualty by undoing the sight button.

forgive my bad english
5 Apr 2021, 20:28 PM
#39
avatar of SpaceCow

Posts: 47

I have a small suggestion. The new OH counterattack tactics is overall better than the current OKW breakthrough tactics even tho they have the same muni cost and CP requirements. IMO both abilities should have the same effect.
6 Apr 2021, 06:05 AM
#40
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1428

Can some on explain why the new Gren G43 were increased in price but the cons ppsh41 upgrade was not.
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