Login

russian armor

Lefh Counter Barrage Controversy

PAGES (9)down
23 Mar 2021, 12:59 PM
#41
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Mar 2021, 12:49 PMVipper


At this point you it seem that you are trying to pick up fight and I am not really interested.

I asked you a very simple question. Do you think counter barrage is balanced, yes or no?

If you think asking you about the topic of the thread is "picking a fight" then I don't know what to tell you

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Mar 2021, 12:49 PMVipper

I have point a very simply thing:

Which isn't the topic of the thread. It's about counter barrage which you have barely mentioned the entire time...

You said my points are irrelevant but you've been talking about allied /okw offmaps the entire time. Lol okay
23 Mar 2021, 13:08 PM
#42
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Mar 2021, 11:40 AMEsxile

Depend on cooldown but I'm reacting more about the "solution" proposed, -Yeah just back off out of Lefh range.
Should say the same thing next time someone complain about elefant or jackson range, just back off out of range. Why have we nerfed ISU range again last patch? you just need to back off out of range...

You are comparing apples and oranges here.
All the units you mentioned need constant frontline duty to be effective. Rocket artillery has literally nothing else to do than wait while on cooldown. There is no disadvantage to driving it back to the base after the barrage. It is literally the thing to do to keep your unit safe, regardless of CB or not. There can be problems on smaller maps, but the overall point stays untouched.
Mortars are slightly different since there is good reason to keep them near the front. But as I said, with those units this weird behaviour does rarely make a difference

I agree though: If possible, it should be fixed. But if it is too much work or breaks other stuff, it is not worth the time. If an issue needs years to get noticed (to emphasize: noticed. We did not spent 8 years trying to look for a fix, we spent 8 years until someone finally realized that something is off. And the LeFH has been viable in team gamse for ages.)
23 Mar 2021, 13:28 PM
#43
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

After 8 years they changed jager armor
Becasue that was meta problem in teamgames.
Hmm but Lefh CB abuse is ok because what?
23 Mar 2021, 13:38 PM
#44
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

After 8 years they changed jager armor
Becasue that was meta problem in teamgames.
Hmm but Lefh CB abuse is ok because what?

That's a whataboutism. And even then missing the point.
Most people said CB needs changes. But CB showing tracking behaviour (and this is only about the tracking behaviour) is by itself not as big of an issue as some people make it out to be.
23 Mar 2021, 14:15 PM
#45
avatar of NorthWeapon
Donator 11

Posts: 612

I said no at first because strong ability is good and fun but after watching video, that does seem like cheating. But I am skeptical that this doesn't happen in-game under normal circumstances.

Usually if I queue retreat back to base I don't get hit.
23 Mar 2021, 14:40 PM
#46
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

I said no at first because strong ability is good and fun but after watching video, that does seem like cheating. But I am skeptical that this doesn't happen in-game under normal circumstances.

Usually if I queue retreat back to base I don't get hit.


CB won't target normal infantry. I'm pretty sure CB will follow the mortar along the retreat and will shell the base. At least, I've retreated plenty of mortars due to CB and still my base got shelled (winnekendonk usually). It will track through FOW, this I have confirmed multiple times with Scott. Launch barrage - move the scott to the furthest safe corner (usually behind the base) and it will still get shelled, albeit with large scatter (can be a second-hand danger)
23 Mar 2021, 14:47 PM
#47
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

I'm pretty sure CB will follow the mortar along the retreat and will shell the base


That would only happen in the extreme case when the LeFH isn't ready to fire until the unit is back in the base and still within the LeFH's range. You'd have to retreat it after firing like 1 shell for that to happen. In all other cases, it will simply barrage the position of the targeted unit when it's ready to fire. If that unit is retreating, it will just barrage whatever position the unit was at the time the firing commenced and it will stop once the unit is out of range. It will not keep tracking it with each consecutive shot.

Testing this stuff takes less than 5 minutes.
23 Mar 2021, 14:54 PM
#48
avatar of |GB| The Lnt.599

Posts: 322 | Subs: 1

just shoot barrage with your zisgun or mortar in a corner of the map --> trigger CB, retreat --> shoot the rocket/other arty piece --> profit .

been doing that for ages, all things aside though i think the tracking through the fow might be a bit over the top. i thought it would just shoot the last known location
23 Mar 2021, 15:00 PM
#49
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

just shoot barrage with your zisgun or mortar in a corner of the map --> trigger CB, retreat --> shoot the rocket/other arty piece --> profit .

been doing that for ages, all things aside though i think the tracking through the fow might be a bit over the top. i thought it would just shoot the last known location

You're sparking an idea here:
Build Scott for 10 pop.
Use Scott barrage, instantly cancel after 1 shot.
Queue in 1000 shift commands of driving the Scott back and forth.
LeFH will continuously setup and resetup.
You now gained 3 pop advantage over 13 pop LeFH.
Steamroll your opponent with half a main line infantry squad more.
MMX
23 Mar 2021, 15:04 PM
#50
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1


You're sparking an idea here:
Build Scott for 10 pop.
Use Scott barrage, instantly cancel after 1 shot.
Queue in 1000 shift commands of driving the Scott back and forth.
LeFH will continuously setup and resetup.
You now gained 3 pop advantage over 13 pop LeFH.
Steamroll your opponent with half a main line infantry squad more.


biiig brain time right there!
23 Mar 2021, 15:05 PM
#51
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

Look if anyone took an interest to do more testing you would find out that mortars dont trigger this which I assume is due to the type of round which leads me believing this is unintended.
23 Mar 2021, 15:14 PM
#52
avatar of Tygrys

Posts: 103

Look if anyone took an interest to do more testing you would find out that mortars dont trigger this which I assume is due to the type of round which leads me believing this is unintended.


Of course this is unintended and stupid. But apparently it isn't an issue to some despite video evidence to the contrary. Something about it "not happening in game" when the same person who did the test in OP also posted a clip from the game of his Katyusha getting shit on by a leFH tracking it.
23 Mar 2021, 15:16 PM
#53
avatar of NorthWeapon
Donator 11

Posts: 612


You're sparking an idea here:
Build Scott for 10 pop.
Use Scott barrage, instantly cancel after 1 shot.
Queue in 1000 shift commands of driving the Scott back and forth.
LeFH will continuously setup and resetup.
You now gained 3 pop advantage over 13 pop LeFH.
Steamroll your opponent with half a main line infantry squad more.


gg
23 Mar 2021, 17:38 PM
#54
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179

So to recap, the correct way to use Counter Barrage is now to aim it perpendicular to the enemy position. Because it spends time rotating and tracks through the fog of war, the barrage won't start until it rotates enough to be able to fire at them, by which point their barrage would have finished and their retreat order would have been given. Counter Barrage will then attack them at where they retreated to since fog of war doesn't affect it..

Because of the delay before the counter barrage, the Allied team can never be sure if the LeFH is rotating or if counter barrage is even active, meaning the only way to truly protect your Arty is to never stop moving.

...And the balance team is fine with this.
23 Mar 2021, 19:35 PM
#55
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Look if anyone took an interest to do more testing you would find out that mortars dont trigger this which I assume is due to the type of round which leads me believing this is unintended.


jump backJump back to quoted post23 Mar 2021, 15:14 PMTygrys


Of course this is unintended and stupid. But apparently it isn't an issue to some despite video evidence to the contrary. Something about it "not happening in game" when the same person who did the test in OP also posted a clip from the game of his Katyusha getting shit on by a leFH tracking it.


??

Mortar auto attack, barrage and smoke barrage triggers CB.
MHT HE, AA, WP and Delayed as well.

Same with Su76 or Zis barrages. M8/Scott does trigger it with both AA and HE barrage. Smoke won't trigger it.

KV2 artillery mode doesnt trigger it.

Not sure what other interactions you want to try.
23 Mar 2021, 19:50 PM
#56
avatar of Tygrys

Posts: 103

So to recap, the correct way to use Counter Barrage is now to aim it perpendicular to the enemy position. Because it spends time rotating and tracks through the fog of war, the barrage won't start until it rotates enough to be able to fire at them, by which point their barrage would have finished and their retreat order would have been given. Counter Barrage will then attack them at where they retreated to since fog of war doesn't affect it..

Because of the delay before the counter barrage, the Allied team can never be sure if the LeFH is rotating or if counter barrage is even accurate, meaning the only way to truly protect your Arty is to never stop moving.

...And the balance team is fine with this.


Yes. They want you to fall back all the way to your HQ. Even on small maps where it will still smash your unit in your base sector.
23 Mar 2021, 20:15 PM
#57
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

So to recap, the correct way to use Counter Barrage is now to aim it perpendicular to the enemy position. Because it spends time rotating and tracks through the fog of war, the barrage won't start until it rotates enough to be able to fire at them, by which point their barrage would have finished and their retreat order would have been given. Counter Barrage will then attack them at where they retreated to since fog of war doesn't affect it..

Because of the delay before the counter barrage, the Allied team can never be sure if the LeFH is rotating or if counter barrage is even active, meaning the only way to truly protect your Arty is to never stop moving.

...And the balance team is fine with this.


Not really after some small testing.

Road to Kharkov, so it's a linear map.

Having the LeFH offcenter by °90 and °180 against a Katyusha which barrages and then retreated (barrage + shift command click back in base) made the LEFH miss completely, while having it dead center on the Katyusha meant that it actually shoot back before it move from it's space.

Considering CB can trigger on anything, not sure you want it to take so much time to turn around.

I'm sure you will sometimes get lucky on wide maps and catch someone by surprise but i wouldn't rely on this technique at all.
23 Mar 2021, 20:23 PM
#58
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359



Only took them 8 years. I guess it's not that bad then, based on this argument.


you should stop with the bullshit sarcasm because CB WAS identified as a "no micro, no skill ability" when it was removed from other IDF units on both axis/allies. Why is it that you dont think thats the case for this one singular unit that can fucking base lock you on certain 3v3 maps?

CoH2 org players cant make up their mind on if CB is so easy to deal with and doesnt need a nerf or CB is the """"only"""" counter to allied SPG. Spoiler alert: its far fucking easier to kill 4/5 rocket arty trucks than any fixed howitzer WITHOUT using a fixed howitzer.
23 Mar 2021, 20:24 PM
#59
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359


That's a whataboutism. And even then missing the point.
Most people said CB needs changes. But CB showing tracking behaviour (and this is only about the tracking behaviour) is by itself not as big of an issue as some people make it out to be.


No, its not a whataboutism, its a response to Sanders93 verbatim sentence about it needing 8 years to be decided a problem therefore its not.

And hes absolutely correct that JLI took 8 years to become a problem and it was nerfed when it ran the meta for half a fucking year or longer.
23 Mar 2021, 20:26 PM
#60
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359


You're sparking an idea here:
Build Scott for 10 pop.
Use Scott barrage, instantly cancel after 1 shot.
Queue in 1000 shift commands of driving the Scott back and forth.
LeFH will continuously setup and resetup.
You now gained 3 pop advantage over 13 pop LeFH.
Steamroll your opponent with half a main line infantry squad more.


All that micro and resources to counter one (1) unit that you click once and forget about. Super balanced.
PAGES (9)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

599 users are online: 599 guests
22 posts in the last 24h
52 posts in the last week
105 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44659
Welcome our newest member, Yourcounselling
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM