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russian armor

General USF Commander overhaul

22 Mar 2021, 21:20 PM
#61
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1261 | Subs: 4

deleted, confused it with the E8.
22 Mar 2021, 21:22 PM
#62
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3013 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2021, 21:09 PMVipper
M4A3 is one of the most cost efficient Main battle tanks


The concept of MBT does not apply to WWII tanks and especially not the Sherman. It's a medium.
22 Mar 2021, 21:43 PM
#63
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3080 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2021, 21:09 PMVipper

The problem is that 76mm in its current implementation is op for stock unit. I 76mm Sherman supported by Paras for instance.

This what I had suggested over a year ago:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/104125/a-redesign-of-sherman

I doubt that Mod would be wiling to for such a change.



That is diversity issue and not a balance problem.


The problem has little to do with access to doctrinal tanks since USF have more option than other faction:
Easy8
76mm
Dozer upgrade
Dozer 105

The diversity issue is that M4A3 is one of the most cost efficient Main battle tanks with exeptional AI and M36 is one of the most cost efficient TDs vs any vehicle making the alternatives unnecessary.



The problem is for some reason only known by the balance team none of them should be as good as the Jackson vs heavy units even for a superior cost.

When you build as USF you should always keep in mind that Tiger/panther and king tiger exist or you end like Kimbo vs Ashiaboy on they first game this Sunday. Over extending AI unit and forgetting your opponent can call a tiger and get rolled over in less than 5 minutes.

Because of that the only diversity that matter at the moment are tanks that bring something more than the M4A3, so in one word dozer upgrade that make your sherman more beefy to fight medium and rampage on infantry. The rest of this diversity will be hard countered by panthers and tiger alike. So yes if you manage to get 3 sherman74 together with vet you'll be able to do something but that's still 3 units to manage, keep alive and vet. In a sense it is a bit weird that in order to get diversity in your build working, you must kill the rest of the diversity and spam that unit to make it effective.

As stated before I'm all for making the Ez8 a command tank, one per player at time but capable to fight 1v1 with a panther. Sherman74 is imo a unit that shouldn't be made into multiplayer but they never wanted to duplicate the Ez8 to not make rifle company trash commander in comparison.
22 Mar 2021, 21:45 PM
#64
avatar of Senseo1990

Posts: 317

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2021, 20:32 PMPip


Release CoH2 was anything but "Well crafted". Lelic bungled balance and basic design for a /very/ long time, culminating in the release of the WFA, who were (and still are, to some degree) ludicrously badly designed.


They are now, they weren't back then. Was the game perfect? Of course not, still better than...this...lol


jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2021, 20:32 PMPip

Part of the reason balance isnt in a better state is that lelic simply don't give the Balance Team room to make major changes


Rofl. If redesigning the entire game (and that is exactly what happened) isn't "room for major changes" then I'm really curious what the balance team wants to turn CoH2 into...another DoW3 I guess, that was really successful!

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2021, 20:32 PMPip
any changes made have to fit lelic's really autistic "vision". An example of this includes their refusal to allow Bolster to be scrapped for UKF, and their insistence that UKF simply /cannot/ have nondoctrinal mobile indirect for some reason.


Because theyre gamedesigners and not part of this "everything has to be exactly the same, because ESL is the most important thing ever"-community
22 Mar 2021, 21:51 PM
#65
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 251


Tactical Support Company:
- P-47 Strafing Run needs more supression in a wider area (atm a meme ability)


Its not a meme ability.

It can destroy a Stuka or Werfer provided it does not move (call it in fast).

Combined with recon on the commander, you basically have a 205 muni rocket arty killer provided they don't notice it being called in.

The ability is kind of misleading when its called in. You choose the attack direction of the strafe where it comes in from off map but the strafe damage happens on a small circle directly on the cursor of where you clicked initially so its pin-point accurate.
23 Mar 2021, 00:06 AM
#68
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 724



Its not a meme ability.

It can destroy a Stuka or Werfer provided it does not move (call it in fast).

Combined with recon on the commander, you basically have a 205 muni rocket arty killer provided they don't notice it being called in.


You said it yourself. It is a 205 MU rocket arty killer if the opponent doesn't pay attention... If he pays attention you wasted that munition completely. The recon plane should be a big wake up call to move the rocket artillery asap, thats always the first target next to howitzers (which don't afford any action, since you can't do nothing to stop an offmap destroying it).

You get a lot more out of other offmap abilities. You can call in a JU-Loiter into a tank battle to do a guaranted ton of damage to tanks for 200 MU or kill a howitzer for sure at 200 MU + 60 MU for recon.
Between this top tier offmaps and the P-47 strafing run there are a lot of other offmap attacks that are performing better.

The damage of the ability is very close to the centre. Move that rocket artillery piece just a bit and it will survive. Its the last useful strafe ability. AT strafes and suppression strafes are way better:

- AT strafes are better because you can hinder tanks to move out of the way by snaring, stuning or blocking them (your skill can make them work)
- suppression strafes are better becasue they suppress in a large area left/right around the strafe (the area of effect can make them work)

Performance of simple AI/light vehicle strafes are depended on RNG and your opponent beeing distracted or paying attention. Bad ability design if you ask me.
23 Mar 2021, 01:51 AM
#70
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 251



You said it yourself. It is a 205 MU rocket arty killer if the opponent doesn't pay attention... If he pays attention you wasted that munition completely. The recon plane should be a big wake up call to move the rocket artillery asap, thats always the first target next to howitzers (which don't afford any action, since you can't do nothing to stop an offmap destroying it).

You get a lot more out of other offmap abilities. You can call in a JU-Loiter into a tank battle to do a guaranted ton of damage to tanks for 200 MU or kill a howitzer for sure at 200 MU + 60 MU for recon.
Between this top tier offmaps and the P-47 strafing run there are a lot of other offmap attacks that are performing better.

The damage of the ability is very close to the centre. Move that rocket artillery piece just a bit and it will survive. Its the last useful strafe ability. AT strafes and suppression strafes are way better:

- AT strafes are better because you can hinder tanks to move out of the way by snaring, stuning or blocking them (your skill can make them work)
- suppression strafes are better becasue they suppress in a large area left/right around the strafe (the area of effect can make them work)

Performance of simple AI/light vehicle strafes are depended on RNG and your opponent beeing distracted or paying attention. Bad ability design if you ask me.


You don't need the full 200 if you can get vision from either a friendly recon plane or (stealth) infantry nearby to provide vision.

Most call-ins are wasted anyway if there is a mass retreat from the flares or AA active. P-47 strafing run is immune to AA and always lands so theres that and its only 120 muni.

Back to the original point though: Its not a meme ability.

It can kill rocket arty and light vehicles pretty effectively if you get the skill to aim it.
23 Mar 2021, 10:07 AM
#73
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2124 | Subs: 2

[Please stop the MBT definition/phrasing discussion. You can discuss these definitions in the scrap yard or via PM, but it does not have anything to do with the current commander rework]
24 Mar 2021, 06:32 AM
#74
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 255

Out of all the factions in the game I feel USF has the worst commanders and they could all use some form of rework/adjustments.
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