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Top level player allegedly maphacking in CoH2

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11 Mar 2021, 23:50 PM
#141
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



I'm not talking about the egregious cases which plague German players during the last months. I'm talking about the normal effects cause by the ingame input lag + the physical distance between Germany and USA ping. Add normal human time reaction to visual stimulus.

So it's basically around 0.200ms + whatever delay you get from the game. IIRC that's around 0.500ms/0.700ms for someone in UK.


A_E and I tested the differences in fog of war due to input lag from distance. He'll probably be uploading a video on it tomorrow.
Pip
11 Mar 2021, 23:52 PM
#142
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



I never tested my input lag, dont know anything about ping or any related numbers... i only care if i can play the game on any given day or not so i cant answer your question. All i know is that very fast reactions are possible.


I mean, sure, fast reactions are possible, but what seems to be demonstrated in some of these clips are genuinely inhumanly fast reactions.
11 Mar 2021, 23:55 PM
#143
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2977 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 23:31 PMPip


There's a bare minimum amount of input lag that literally any player will have simply due to how networking functions, and there's 1/5th of a second (or thereabouts) of reaction time to take into account, even if Seeking has "very fast reactions". If the replay isnt significantly desynched, then I don't think it's a reasonable thing for him to have "Reacted" to. FoW would have to be quite different in the replay to how it was in the live game for it to really make sense.

If there's an inconsistency with the replay, I'd have thought it more logical that the opposing player would appear to react slightly /slower/ than they "actually" did, rather than more quickly?

I think we need more data points/a thorough examination of Replays to know for sure one way or another tbh.


Not sure if someone noticed but another problem for seeking in this clip is the fact that the pathfinders did not start aiming their guns yet when sandbags were cancelled.

Volks have 35 sight range, pathfinders have 50. Both volks and vet 0 pathfinders have 35 weapon range.
If the volks started reacting as soon as they saw them, the Pathfinders would immediately have started to aim + shoot at least (especially because volks are stuck for 1sec after cancelling bags)... which did not happen in this clip! A whole 2 (almost 3?) seconds passed until the first bullet was shot.

How many more times do excuses need to be debunked for this sandbag clip? :foreveralone:

12 Mar 2021, 00:01 AM
#144
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



A_E and I tested the differences in fog of war due to input lag from distance. He'll probably be uploading a video on it tomorrow.


Good to know.
12 Mar 2021, 01:02 AM
#145
avatar of masterx.

Posts: 19

Getting my popcorn
12 Mar 2021, 01:29 AM
#146
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

The clip with the snipers that Aerafield made (#10 on the YouTube playlist) has some pretty damning moments. Some seem okay, but there's a couple that are really bad. And to have them in the same match?

The sniper movement in that clip in particular seems impossible to explain
12 Mar 2021, 02:04 AM
#147
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 01:37 AMRosbone
These two frames are a little closer in time. The FOW is still moving.


- The units seem to be not moving.
- The G43 icon is missing in both as it transfers.
- The FOW is moved.

It is important to note that the FOW may NOT be calculated every frame, but once every 100mS or something. Needs reviewed. So you may see FOW differences just due to calc sequences not being synced.


Unfortunately seems people are using your clip as "proof" of desync.

I'm sure you know that by using "," and "." on youtube you can move frame by frame.

Go to:
https://youtu.be/4d0utxORja0?t=87

and
https://youtu.be/mvVCIDc3pa4?t=90

Stop right at the frame before the officer model appears and then move 22 frames forward. You see that the increment on sight aligns but due to youtube limitations you can't get the same frame at number 25, although the sight aligns.
12 Mar 2021, 02:59 AM
#148
avatar of Toyvendor

Posts: 40 | Subs: 1

Weak evidence tbh, only sketchy clip is brummbar on AOD.
12 Mar 2021, 03:37 AM
#149
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2098 | Subs: 2

Unfortunately seems people are using your clip as "proof" of desync.

It is just a reference. I agree and state that it is not perfectly synced. In fact you can almost never get them perfectly synced.

I'm sure you know that by using "," and "." on youtube you can move frame by frame.

No I did not know this. Thanks. I never use ANY google product if I dont have too. They are the devil and no one should ever use any google stuff.

Tournament directors asked me to make a google sheet for them and I said "You make the account, because I will not." And I should have just said no. My mistake. Click on the account and it has a whole history of everything I ever searched. Fvck Google people. No Android phones, No Google, No YouTube. Pull out before its too late.


Go to:
https://youtu.be/4d0utxORja0?t=87

This video was broken when I tried to watch it.... f'ing Google.
12 Mar 2021, 06:29 AM
#151
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 22:03 PMPip


The vehicle can still take damage from missed shots if the AOE damage penetrates, my assumption is that's what happened here, though I admit to not being an expert. It's just that the shot didn't "hit" the T-70, so an accuracy calculation either wasn't done, or didn't succeed... In either case the shot doesn't curve.


That shot is definitely curved. try to watch it frame by frame.
There are 2 probably here
1.this is a ground shot that was hit T70 but cause replay illusion make we see it curved and hit a dirt.
2.this is aim shot.
12 Mar 2021, 06:30 AM
#152
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



Yes, but the point was that the shot seemed to curve which is only possible with a directly targeted shot. Which in turn would be impossible under normal circumstances, because the Pak 40 can't fire a second shot before the FoW reveal from the first shot wears off (tested). But as I said before, it's entirely possible that the curve is just a camera angle or replay illusion.

I suspect the curve is just an illusion, because the shot seems to miss and deal AOE damage rather than being a direct pen.


Is it possible to have a replay file? so I can watch it again in top view.
by the way
Does AOE damage from pak deal full damage to target like direct pen?
I haven't met this before.
12 Mar 2021, 06:55 AM
#153
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

seeking was reading this thread yesterday. why has he not post some sort of reply?
12 Mar 2021, 07:33 AM
#154
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

Something interesting in the dicussion taking place here is the absence of -It happened to me too or -I have replays where the same shit happened. At most people are trying to replicate what happened on those clips but its like it never occured to them before.

For a bunch of people used to watch top players streams and replays almost every days its kind of weird because Seeking is just a human and I could understand a superior gameplay by superior APM or such but there is nothing like that in those clips, just a kind of superior awareness like if he is infused by the force.
12 Mar 2021, 08:23 AM
#155
avatar of sattium

Posts: 2

I think it might be caused by bugs after the update. Once after the update, I personally caught a bug when a squad of panzerfusers was displayed near each shelter or building in the game. Before that, this has not happened, so anything is possible.
12 Mar 2021, 09:27 AM
#156
avatar of LegioxRoma

Posts: 267

what if we let seeking speak directly to accusators in a voice chat/meeting?
So that everybody involved can tell his opinion and argue about the situation?
I mean accusators collected a lot of clips, that's fine.
Seeking trying to explain the clips, that's fine.
But in both scenario there wasnt the other side ready to reply on whatever was being said.
my 2 cents.
12 Mar 2021, 11:32 AM
#157
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

what if we let seeking speak directly to accusators in a voice chat/meeting?
So that everybody involved can tell his opinion and argue about the situation?
I mean accusators collected a lot of clips, that's fine.
Seeking trying to explain the clips, that's fine.
But in both scenario there wasnt the other side ready to reply on whatever was being said.
my 2 cents.

I mean, that's what is being done?
AE said they give him one week to appeal and explain what is going on.
12 Mar 2021, 12:35 PM
#158
avatar of LegioxRoma

Posts: 267


I mean, that's what is being done?
AE said they give him one week to appeal and explain what is going on.

Yeah but doing it on voice chat it's the way to go so that they can insta reply.
If it's going on like that nvm, remove my comment.
12 Mar 2021, 12:35 PM
#159
avatar of Muussikuha

Posts: 8

Interesting that multiple people are not seeing the minor nuances that are clear indication for cheating. Remember, top level players who are cheating in any game are very good at it and do understand that their every move might be watched. Which in turn hurts their own natural game play and gives them a slight disadvantage.

The cheats obviously still gives them a clear edge. This case is clear from just the long sniper clip. It does not matter that other clips are less clear. Again hiding it is hard and takes a lot of skill and thought. Also the big number of pro players are much better at seeing it than we are.

A_E
12 Mar 2021, 13:06 PM
#160
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2436 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2021, 03:37 AMRosbone

It is just a reference. I agree and state that it is not perfectly synced. In fact you can almost never get them perfectly synced.


No I did not know this. Thanks. I never use ANY google product if I dont have too. They are the devil and no one should ever use any google stuff.

Tournament directors asked me to make a google sheet for them and I said "You make the account, because I will not." And I should have just said no. My mistake. Click on the account and it has a whole history of everything I ever searched. Fvck Google people. No Android phones, No Google, No YouTube. Pull out before its too late.


This video was broken when I tried to watch it.... f'ing Google.


I agree with rosbone you cannot perfectly sync replays to live game, it's extremely close however and the positioning of units and their respective fog of war is usually very accurate. What tends to happen is there can be instances where there is tiny bits of global catch-up etc, just enough to possibly cast doubt on some of the frame by frame evidence. But tbh after today I don't think it will be that much of an issue, and we'll be concentrating on other lines of reasoning, announcements to follow.
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