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Top level player allegedly maphacking in CoH2

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15 Mar 2021, 21:50 PM
#321
avatar of Tobis
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Damn that extra context does make a big difference in the katy case. That was one of the most obvious examples for me. It's entirely possible he just prefired it at the road guessing the blob would be there from before the clip.

I still think he was maphacking based on the 2 brumbar clips, the at gun chase into narnia, and all the deadbolt nonsense. It's not as cut and dry as I would have liked to believe.

Some of these are clipped in ways to make them intentionally look worse than they actually are....
A_E
15 Mar 2021, 22:02 PM
#322
avatar of A_E
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Mar 2021, 21:50 PMTobis
it pretty clear that they are clipping some of these in ways to make them intentionally look worse than they actually are....


I think that's just because some of the people making these clips had no experience in creating evidence for analysis like this. The clips made by aerafiled and myself two people who had experience were as long as possible for maximum context.
15 Mar 2021, 22:08 PM
#323
avatar of Tobis
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Mar 2021, 22:02 PMA_E


I think that's just because some of the people making these clips had no experience in creating evidence for analysis like this. The clips found by aerafiled and myself tow people who had experience were as long as possible for maximum context.

I didn't mean they to imply all the clippers, but mostly Brosras and his 2v2 partner.
15 Mar 2021, 22:23 PM
#324
avatar of brosras

Posts: 224 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Mar 2021, 22:08 PMTobis

I didn't mean they to imply all the clippers, but mostly Brosras and his 2v2 partner.


I was shooting from the 55th second when blob appeared, from his point of view. Maybe I should have started shooting with a freeze frame. In a good way, at each moment, you need to make 2 videos, but it will take much more time
15 Mar 2021, 22:29 PM
#325
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 904 | Subs: 1

Giving one of the most sus clips context, suddenly makes it far less sus. What a surprise indeed. You know what would be cool aswell. Full replays for instance.
But they are probably werent saved, only clips were made and then replays got deleted.
15 Mar 2021, 22:31 PM
#326
avatar of brosras

Posts: 224 | Subs: 1

You will not believe who needed them, the PM wrote to me and received them
15 Mar 2021, 22:51 PM
#327
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 904 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Mar 2021, 22:31 PMbrosras
You will not believe who needed them, the PM wrote to me and received them


You mean sturmpanther? Well then its even more hilarious.

Community was presented with clips. Clips with katy was wacthed frame by frame and claimed as one of the most solid maphack prove. Then Kimbo is presenting clip from the stream he, by sheer coincidence, had and kinda debunked it, at least partly.

If replays were made public all this ppl analyzing would have been found same context ages ago.

Again, not saying he is not a cheater. But this situation becoming more and more unsettling really, because of how blantly one sided it is when it comes to analyzation.
15 Mar 2021, 23:07 PM
#328
avatar of Sturmpanther
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You mean sturmpanther? Well then its even more hilarious.

Community was presented with clips. Clips with katy was wacthed frame by frame and claimed as one of the most solid maphack prove. Then Kimbo is presenting clip from the stream he, by sheer coincidence, had and kinda debunked it, at least partly.

If replays were made public all this ppl analyzing would have been found same context ages ago.

Again, not saying he is not a cheater. But this situation becoming more and more unsettling really, because of how blantly one sided it is when it comes to analyzation.


- Can't upload replays on a google doc.
- Because of the latest patch you need to do some stuffs to see the replays.
- Everyone, who asked for replay, got them.
- Most people did not even watch all the 50 clips. So ofc they never would spent their freetime to watch all the replays in whole length.
- I am very busy in RL atm

I personal never had the katja clip on my top of lists. But the public community loved the clip. Can't blame them. To understand sniper play and inf movement is hard and complexe. So brumbar shots or katja barrages are more clear to see direct. No offense here to anyone :)

"You mean sturmpanther? Well then its even more hilarious. " because?
15 Mar 2021, 23:22 PM
#329
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1896



- Can't upload replays on a google doc.
- Because of the latest patch you need to do some stuffs to see the replays.
- Everyone, who asked for replay, got them.
- Most people did not even watch all the 50 clips. So ofc they never would spent their freetime to watch all the replays in whole length.
- I am very busy in RL atm

I personal never had the katja clip on my top of lists. But the public community loved the clip. Can't blame them. To understand sniper play and inf movement is hard and complexe. So brumbar shots or katja barrages are more clear to see direct. No offense here to anyone :)

"You mean sturmpanther? Well then its even more hilarious. " because?


TBH, the Katy clip could've been a lucky guess. I often prefire Katy's like that. Sometimes I miss badly, other times I hit really well.

The ground fire on the cloaked atg's was much more suspicious. The brumbar moves towards some infantry, then backs away as the infantry moves back, then immediately changes direction and attacks ground on something that it definitely could not have seen. I watched other clips and don't see a pattern of Seeking attacking ground on random places with his brumbarr so there really doesn't seem to be a plausible explanation of that clip.

15 Mar 2021, 23:22 PM
#330
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 904 | Subs: 1


"You mean sturmpanther? Well then its even more hilarious. " because?


Because of 328 posts, multiple live stream analysis and continues drama without even a glance of concensus, just because we cant see the whole picture.

And speaking of points you've mention. Fair enouth.

- Can't upload replays on a google doc.
Could have been just uploaded to google drive in archive and left in a google doc.

- Because of the latest patch you need to do some stuffs to see the replays.
I'm pretty sure ppl who have interest in this activity would have done it without being frustrated about it.

- Everyone, who asked for replay, got them.
Not everyone knew it was an option to begin with. Not to mention why ppl should personally ask for them to begin with. Its a public discusstion after-all and replays are the main source of information.

- Most people did not even watch all the 50 clips. So ofc they never would spent their freetime to watch all the replays in whole length.
True, but I belive ppl who did watch all the 50 clips, and did spent their freetime would have considered watching at least the games with the most sus clips, if they were more accessible. Hell, most of the ppl probably just watched A_E video and have never opened google doc but it was created nonetheless.

- I am very busy in RL atm
Your right here, its just a side activity and the game afterwards. But as I stated, you tecnically would have spend more time PMing each individual who asked for replays, rather then just uploading them in acrhive to google drive.
15 Mar 2021, 23:43 PM
#331
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2645 | Subs: 4

Giving one of the most sus clips context, suddenly makes it far less sus.


Honestly the clip itself never was that suspicious to me. Maybe a top 10 or top 15 clip, but more at the bottom. Guess-shooting with rocket arty is common af


It was seeking's explanation "I fired as soon as I saw it" that made the clip so suspicious. But of course the answer can totally be blamed on nervousness, as others have mentioned
15 Mar 2021, 23:57 PM
#332
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 904 | Subs: 1


It was seeking's explanation "I fired as soon as I saw it" that made the clip so suspicious. But of course the answer can totally be blamed on nervousness, as others have mentioned

Well maybe he indeed fired as soon as he saw it. Like lets say, we consider that he saw the blob (which he did, due to kimbo clip) and then just fired at the most likely path where blob could be.

Its just a matter how you phrase it and how you understand it. Maybe he ment that he saw it before via Kimbo sight, maybe he just dont remember how he saw it (being sure that he saw it), maybe knowing that there is blob comming he click the ability and was aiming on the road as "as soon as he saw" the first model he fired. There are a lot ways to interpret this phrase.

For me personally the most sus clip was, the brummbrar trying to prefire moving AT gun in fow and then canceling it. Considring there is a bush on the way you can crush and the fact that brumm was perfectly allined to this bush plus pressing attackground and the canceling it, makes it really sus af.
Because you cant do all of this as a random action.

But seeking was already claimed cheater just because of the mainstream katy clip.
15 Mar 2021, 23:58 PM
#333
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 281



The biggest problem for me are still all the clips where it was argued "it happened on the edge of FoW, and FoW is badly synced in replays". Those are the katyusha clip, the volks sandbag vs pathfinder clip and the assgren sprint clip mainly.





Honestly the clip itself never was that suspicious to me. Maybe a top 10 or top 15 clip, but more at the bottom. Guess-shooting with rocket arty is common af



?
16 Mar 2021, 00:00 AM
#334
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3318 | Subs: 1


Then Kimbo is presenting clip from the stream he, by sheer coincidence, had and kinda debunked it, at least partly.

"Kinda at least partly"? Okay lol
16 Mar 2021, 00:00 AM
#335
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2645 | Subs: 4





?


wanna post the context too? :foreveralone:




The biggest problem for me are still all the clips where it was argued "it happened on the edge of FoW, and FoW is badly synced in replays". Those are the katyusha clip, the volks sandbag vs pathfinder clip and the assgren sprint clip mainly.

In all of them, Seeking repeatedly said (even on stream), that he reacted that way because he saw the units. Which is kind of 100% debunked at this point as others mentioned... on top of the fact that there is still 0 proof yet that fog of war is poorly synced in a replay.





16 Mar 2021, 00:07 AM
#336
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 281

context, why?? i thought i could out you as a liar and threaten your reputation with just these out of context quotes? no? my bad. guess i have to make some clips then, brb
16 Mar 2021, 00:24 AM
#337
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2645 | Subs: 4

context, why?? i thought i could out you as a liar and threaten your reputation with just these out of context quotes? no? my bad. guess i have to make some clips then, brb


No matter how much context gets put into the "edge of FoW" clips, fact is that seeking said "I saw one gren model, then I started shooting the katy". Similar explanations for the other clips. Crazy to think that suspicion gets bigger after you question that person... oh wait, that happens all the time in real life when the police questions someone.


The katyusha clip was mildly suspicious to me. Then it turned into "very suspicious" after Seeking's statement.


I know you are a good friend of seeking, and that your quote above was meant as a joke/metaphor, but what is so hard to understand?
16 Mar 2021, 01:02 AM
#338
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 281



No matter how much context gets put into the "edge of FoW" clips, fact is that seeking said "I saw one gren model, then I started shooting the katy". Similar explanations for the other clips. Crazy to think that suspicion gets bigger after you question that person... oh wait, that happens all the time in real life when the police questions someone.


The katyusha clip was mildly suspicious to me. Then it turned into "very suspicious" after Seeking's statement.


I know you are a good friend of seeking, and that your quote above was meant as a joke/metaphor, but what is so hard to understand?


What i dont understand is why seeking or in this case Kimbo is the one who had to deliver the context for this clip. Isnt it the job of those who accuse him of cheating to prove that the situation doesnt allow anything else than a maphack to be the explaination before Seeking has to defend his position?
How many of those clips can be explained with the context of the situation instead of Seeking writing an essay about why, when, how and what his feelings, hopes and dreams were in an intense game?



16 Mar 2021, 01:11 AM
#339
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2645 | Subs: 4



What i dont understand is why seeking or in this case Kimbo is the one who had to deliver the context for this clip. Isnt it the job of those who accuse him of cheating to prove that the situation doesnt allow anything else than a maphack to be the explaination before Seeking has to defend his position?
How many of those clips can be explained with the context of the situation instead of Seeking writing an essay about why, when, how and what his feelings, hopes and dreams were in an intense game?





I get that, but in this particular katyusha clip, nobody told me/us that there is a Twitch VoD available for it. And we certainly won't check hours of VoDs because there might be a context clip.

And I can assure you that I am 100% unbiased in this whole case since the start. If an argument against seeking doesn't make sense or if a clip (even or especially after seeking's defense statement) is bad & weak -which some of the clips on the word document certainly were- I would immediately acknowledge that.
16 Mar 2021, 01:23 AM
#340
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2474 | Subs: 21



Can confirm aerafield is the most unbiased player in the community
But CN does have a point that one may not be lying about something, but have a washy memory on the process leading up to a gameplay decision from a random 2v2 game some time ago

Not everyone has good memory for coh2. That being said one must take into account what the real reason was behind the katy /brummbar firing
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