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German Infantry Commander adjustments

13 Mar 2021, 00:28 AM
#62
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 924

Let's consider our posts before we make them, not after.

Cleaned up the mess, please continue in a constructive fashion.
13 Mar 2021, 08:33 AM
#63
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1010


Projecting much?
It's a shitty argument. i guess now you wouldn't mind if the mg was 220 mp right. Because it supports your argument.


Before then sustained fire buff 240mp was my wish, but now after you put muni in the gun at least it comes close to the mg42 without vet 1. That and conscripts being reliable instead of rng pushovers.

I used the mg's as an example to point out that units costing the same dont always mean equal preformance (maxim spam tds will do that) Zis v pak is a good example while the pak is a better at unit and the zis is better overall.

Leaving out essential cost for cons to compare them to grens and then saying grens should beat cons because they cost 12/13mp and 10 muni more if you leave out these costs, while grens at 5 or 4 men can but not always nuke or wipe a squad from range wich cons cannot hope to do (wich is justly so you cant have 6 or 7 men squads nuke a squad esp from range)
13 Mar 2021, 10:37 AM
#64
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 143

I'm just listing some conscript strengths as it seems to be a topic.
Well conscripts had a ton of utility, like merge, build sandbags, trip wire flares which grenadiers don't have with and in built sprint. Unupgraded cons beat unupgraded grenadier in any range except for long range.
13 Mar 2021, 11:33 AM
#65
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1010

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2021, 10:37 AMLMAO
I'm just listing some conscript strengths as it seems to be a topic.
Well conscripts had a ton of utility, like merge, build sandbags, trip wire flares which grenadiers don't have with and in built sprint. Unupgraded cons beat unupgraded grenadier in any range except for long range. Ppsh conscript is also like the current grenadier vsl wet dream .


At mid range cons vs grens is 50/50 mostly. At close cons have the upperhand at long range grens do.

All that utility comes at the cost of nades (the conscripts wet dream) weapon upgrades, a bit less effective team weapons, no early lv outside of the clown car and have molly and at nade locked behind tech with 7th man locked behind t3 and/or t4.

While not as usefull as sandbags grens get bunkers, nades, ai upgrades and can self heal and heal others squads, get faust right away. Their tw support and early lv fase is a bit better.

The vsl is and should be about durability and field precense and nit turn them into light obers as a lot of people want. Cons ppsh,s have clear drawbacks next to its pro's so should vsl.
22 Mar 2021, 08:54 AM
#66
avatar of LSDuffy

Posts: 117

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 13:26 PMKatitof

Pios cap just as well as grens in late game and its ostwind/brummbar/pwerfer who do the infantry killing heavy lifting, not grens, unless you actually believe grens should stand up to fully upgraded tommies or rifles too, in which case, you're delusional. Ost late game was ALWAYS about vehicles, never about infantry.

There is a reason why in place of grens, pios are being rebuilt.

I honestly didn't expected I would need to teach a wehraboo the very basics of playing the ost faction, but here we are.


You clearly did not understood what I said, so I'll leave you here with opportunity to re-read it as many times as you need for it to sink in.


nice one boss
8 Apr 2021, 01:01 AM
#67
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 275

I like the change of weaponry for the veteran squad leader grens and that they still retain improved rate of fire. However I feel like with the survivability nerf to vsl everyone is going to use G43 grens in the coming patch instead. I have thousands of hours played but am of low ranking so my opinions on balance matter very little. However, in my opinion (take it for what it's worth) VSL grens could use a slight buff or change. Like decreasing their RA again, and maybe taking away their ability to heal for free.
8 Apr 2021, 05:30 AM
#68
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1432

I think a simple cost reduction to 50 or 45 muni would do it for me. It's just not worth getting it anymore over the lmg 42. They neither have the fire power/toughness to fight close. Ass grens don't have that kind of fire power but they are very hard to kill because of their mad 0.6 ra this is unlike shocks who has .83 ra with 1.5 armor. Most MG's have higer pen than that so shocks are actuaaly weaker to MG's than ass grens.
8 Apr 2021, 06:43 AM
#69
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 785

I would maybe like to see VSL reduce the reinforce cost from 30 to 28. beecuase you are dropping an extra model in most engagements as compared to mg42 grens. which hurts your mp economy.

also, I feel like lefh would fit the infantry theme well. Idk which ability it would replace, or even if its necessary. just wanted to point it out
8 Apr 2021, 10:15 AM
#70
avatar of Tetranet

Posts: 164







I'd like to see this obscure ability that you get from the Panzergrenadier support package, their equivalent of the sergeant upgrade Grens and Pios get, be replaced with the Smoke Grenade from the Strategic Reserves doctrine, so they end up with slow repairs + smoke grenade. Right now, expending munitions to debuff the enemy unit while also debuffing your own is very situational.
8 Apr 2021, 11:59 AM
#71
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 275

Don't Panzer Gren already get smoke grenade from that package though?
Pip
8 Apr 2021, 13:17 PM
#72
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1294

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2021, 01:01 AMLewka
I like the change of weaponry for the veteran squad leader grens and that they still retain improved rate of fire. However I feel like with the survivability nerf to vsl everyone is going to use G43 grens in the coming patch instead. I have thousands of hours played but am of low ranking so my opinions on balance matter very little. However, in my opinion (take it for what it's worth) VSL grens could use a slight buff or change. Like decreasing their RA again, and maybe taking away their ability to heal for free.


I don't think that G43 grens are going to be massively used, I still don't think they're particularly good.
8 Apr 2021, 13:18 PM
#73
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 275

Really? I thought the buff looked so strong in the patch notes
Pip
8 Apr 2021, 15:15 PM
#74
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1294

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2021, 13:18 PMLewka
Really? I thought the buff looked so strong in the patch notes


Ehh, you're paying 60 muni to turn Grens into an "almost" close range squad, Panzergrenadiers do basically anything that G43 grens can do significantly better. It still feels like a worse version of the VSL upgrade, but without anywhere near as much of a survivability boost.

I can't envision many scenarios where I'd want to really bother with it.
8 Apr 2021, 16:19 PM
#75
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1661

I would maybe like to see VSL reduce the reinforce cost from 30 to 28. beecuase you are dropping an extra model in most engagements as compared to mg42 grens. which hurts your mp economy.

also, I feel like lefh would fit the infantry theme well. Idk which ability it would replace, or even if its necessary. just wanted to point it out


no place for stormtroopers, replace with lefh....hmm i rather replace with command tank though

also for grens with lmg, sure they are better long range, but most allies will just rush in on them. so range is not like a sure win
8 Apr 2021, 16:20 PM
#76
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 275

Wow yeah mayve I'm just a noob idk. I tried asking Imperial Dane and he still suggested German Infantry or Encirclement over G43 doctrines
Pip
8 Apr 2021, 18:02 PM
#77
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1294



no place for stormtroopers, replace with lefh....hmm i rather replace with command tank though

also for grens with lmg, sure they are better long range, but most allies will just rush in on them. so range is not like a sure win


The idea is you prevent the allies "just rushing in" by using MGs and Pgrens to corral them.
9 Apr 2021, 09:48 AM
#78
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 691

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2021, 13:18 PMLewka
Really? I thought the buff looked so strong in the patch notes


The problem why the g43 upgrade is rarely seen is because the soviets and the Americans excel at short range fighting. Even with g43´s you are going to lose against these factions in a pitched battle. Now there are maps that that favor close range combat instead of long range combat and at this point you should be using the g43´s over the LMG. But the traditional advantage of the ostheer has always been long range.
9 Apr 2021, 16:37 PM
#79
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 275

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2021, 09:48 AMZyllen


The problem why the g43 upgrade is rarely seen is because the soviets and the Americans excel at short range fighting. Even with g43´s you are going to lose against these factions in a pitched battle. Now there are maps that that favor close range combat instead of long range combat and at this point you should be using the g43´s over the LMG. But the traditional advantage of the ostheer has always been long range.

A good point, thanks for the input. I agree grenadier's advantage is long range generally
11 Apr 2021, 15:43 PM
#80
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 307

A total rework of the commander might be in order. Okay I get it; adding a Sniper G43 was too much.

It was happily one of my core commanders I used, and for good reason.

How about this?

2 - CP
Breakthrough Equipment

2 - CP
Stormtroopers

2 - CP
Veteran Squad Leaders (45 munitions)

4 man grens are now upgraded to a 5th man with a standard Kar 98. Veteran Squad Leaders inspire their man to move faster as well as be able to concentrate their fire more accurately.

-VSL Grens now get Sprint

-VSL Grens now get 'Target Them!'

-VSL Grens now get Smoke Grenade

Panzergrens no longer are affected due to already getting smoke grenades from Breakthrough Equipment.

6 CP - Assault And Hold

10 CP - Frag Bomb



I would gladly take Kar 98 instead of the current implementation of VSL which is pretty shit. If I wanted a Volksgrenadier clone I would play OKW or go with Assualt Grenadiers.
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