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Osttruppen Discussion and Feedback

15 Dec 2020, 18:26 PM
#61
avatar of Elpern

Posts: 84

I voted for call-in with T1 requirement.

I'd set it up as follows:
  • BP1 cost change reverted from 50 to 40 fuel, fuel cost moved back to T1.
  • Osttruppen and Assault Grenadiers require T1 built before they can be called in.
  • Assault Grenadier cost from 280 to 260 manpower.
  • Recharge times and everything else remains the same.

This has the most benefits and not many drawbacks:
  • 2 MG42 + 2 Pio builds and T1 with Osttruppen builds not affected (these are not considered problematic builds, nerfing these would just harm diversity, which is what more expensive Osttruppen / BP1 would do).
  • Good timing delay on MG42 + 3 Osttruppen builds (1:53 T1 vs 1:48 35sec 220mp vs 1:35 live). Also, most of the added cost is upfront and the Pioneers will be busy building T1 at the start (all add up to a less oppressive early game). MG42 + 3 Gren builds take 2:42 to field.
  • Panzergrenadiers and T2 delayed for Osttruppen and Assault Grenadier builds.
  • Wouldn't be just a straight up cost nerf to MG42 + 3 Osttruppen builds, but give access to earlier Faust and T1 units.

I would agree to some extent, at least like to see it tried in ver 3 just so that we can get a sense of powerlevel, wouldn't really personally mind removing the faust from osttruppen together with this just to force diversity with grens but that would probably not be very popular, aswell as forcing t1 before calling in already kind of promotes grens in some sense. I'm not sure about the assgrens changes you propose, as they are not really troublesome in live, buuuut I wouldn't mind testing this at all in the ver 3 build. Only thing I know for sure after extensive testing is that the current nerfs are not enough for either 5 men or osttruppen
15 Dec 2020, 18:29 PM
#62
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3141 | Subs: 2

If they're going to be different units with different ways of calling in at least give them different weapons and abilities like the Panzerbüsche 39 AT rifles and merge or something.

Like it doesn't at least make sense to me that basically the same unit is just being called in differently due to being in different commanders.

Make them unique and distinguishable so people know there's an actual difference.
Pip
15 Dec 2020, 18:35 PM
#63
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

If they're going to be different units with different ways of calling in at least give them different weapons and abilities like the Panzerbüsche 39 AT rifles and merge or something.

Like it doesn't at least make sense to me that basically the same unit is just being called in differently due to being in different commanders.

Make them unique and distinguishable so people know there's an actual difference.


This is just for testing purposes. One or the other version of Ostruppen will reach the final game. The idea is to see which one is better balanced.
15 Dec 2020, 19:08 PM
#64
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

If Osttruppen are still too good, why not reduce their in-cover bonus while boosting their MG42 damage?

That way they could be toned down a little while even getting a late game boost to scale slightly better. Also the weapon upgrade would allow to replace lost Osttruppen better.
15 Dec 2020, 19:27 PM
#65
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Panzerbüsche 39 AT rifles

Why do people so often write "Panzerbüsche"? That isn't a German word. xD

It is Büchse, with ch. Büsche is the plural of Busch, meaning bushes. xD
15 Dec 2020, 20:08 PM
#66
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

If Osttruppen are still too good, why not reduce their in-cover bonus while boosting their MG42 damage?

That way they could be toned down a little while even getting a late game boost to scale slightly better. Also the weapon upgrade would allow to replace lost Osttruppen better.

Its not their damage, its their map control that's the problem.

Why do people so often write "Panzerbüsche"? That isn't a German word. xD

It is Büchse, with ch. Büsche is the plural of Busch, meaning bushes. xD

Because largest smartass on the forums does not know german and doesn't realize he can correct all these people to say Buchse instead (don't give a crap about finding umlaut, so imagine the dots where they need to be).
15 Dec 2020, 20:16 PM
#67
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Dec 2020, 20:08 PMKatitof

Because largest smartass on the forums does not know german and doesn't realize he can correct all these people to say Buchse instead (don't give a crap about finding umlaut, so imagine the dots where they need to be).


It isn't because of Umlaut, it is because sch instead of ch. If you don't find Umlaut then us ue, ae, or oe instead. Instead of ß use ss or sz. It's a hand full of words, I think it isn't so difficult to learn them. ^^
15 Dec 2020, 20:31 PM
#68
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



It isn't because of Umlaut, it is because sch instead of ch. If you don't find Umlaut then us ue, ae, or oe instead. Instead of ß use ss or sz. It's a hand full of words, I think it isn't so difficult to learn them. ^^

You have failed at reading comprehension, because I've written it correctly...
15 Dec 2020, 20:42 PM
#69
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I think it isn't so difficult to learn them


Press"x"todoubt.jpeg

Be glad they use a term which is close enough given context.

Now back to topic pls.
15 Dec 2020, 21:16 PM
#70
avatar of KT610

Posts: 69

If osttruppen go up in cost. They should have their out of cover penalty removed.
15 Dec 2020, 21:59 PM
#71
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Add em to t0 and have em build- they may even be in order for some nerf roll backs then to return them closer to their manpower effecient defenders role


Exactly this, you don't really need any other nerfs (and you can even buff em as you say) if you just move them to HQ

If it's meant to be an alternate opening for Ost then treat like one. I would even be cool with ostrupp getting better scaling through some kind of upgrade

A more significant one than their shittier lmg42 i mean. Like a late game manpower+fuel upgrade that increases their stats or something
15 Dec 2020, 23:32 PM
#72
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

How about a rework of how they function?

Goal of rework: make Osttruppen arrive slightly later and be less powerful alone but more powerful when mixed in to a build

Rework idea:
Require T1 built
Accuracy decreased by 10%
Osttruppen gain +15% accuracy when within 20m of a mainline infantry squad (Panzergrenadiers and Grenadiers), shown as a passive ability in the UI named “disheartened infantry” that states “disheartened troops fight poorly when no supporting infantry units are nearby”
15 Dec 2020, 23:59 PM
#73
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Dec 2020, 20:08 PMKatitof

Its not their damage, its their map control that's the problem.


That's exactly what I already said on page 2. This second suggestion was directed to fix Osttruppens late game weakness and make them more attractive in team games.
16 Dec 2020, 00:01 AM
#74
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

How about a rework of how they function?

Goal of rework: make Osttruppen arrive slightly later and be less powerful alone but more powerful when mixed in to a build

Rework idea:
Require T1 built
Accuracy decreased by 10%
Osttruppen gain +15% accuracy when within 20m of a mainline infantry squad (Panzergrenadiers and Grenadiers), shown as a passive ability in the UI named “disheartened infantry” that states “disheartened troops fight poorly when no supporting infantry units are nearby”

These auras look nice on paper, but usually lead to blobs of doom (that's why the Sturmoffizier was reworked as well). Hard to tell how ot would be for Osttruppen though since they work very very bad as moving blobs.
Pip
16 Dec 2020, 02:24 AM
#75
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594


These auras look nice on paper, but usually lead to blobs of doom (that's why the Sturmoffizier was reworked as well). Hard to tell how ot would be for Osttruppen though since they work very very bad as moving blobs.


I feel as though forcing Osttruppen to be close to other infantry to be able to fight correctly is a bit of a poor idea.
16 Dec 2020, 06:57 AM
#76
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789


These auras look nice on paper, but usually lead to blobs of doom (that's why the Sturmoffizier was reworked as well). Hard to tell how ot would be for Osttruppen though since they work very very bad as moving blobs.


jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2020, 02:24 AMPip


I feel as though forcing Osttruppen to be close to other infantry to be able to fight correctly is a bit of a poor idea.


Yeah I think you are right, unfortunately. I was hoing it would encourage using grenadier - osttruppen pairs, but it would most likely just end up encoyraging blobs of osttruppen around 1 grenadier or panzergrenadier, as you said.

so in the end, not a good idea :(
16 Dec 2020, 07:06 AM
#77
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

How about a rework of how they function?

Goal of rework: make Osttruppen arrive slightly later and be less powerful alone but more powerful when mixed in to a build

Rework idea:
Require T1 built
Accuracy decreased by 10%
Osttruppen gain +15% accuracy when within 20m of a mainline infantry squad (Panzergrenadiers and Grenadiers), shown as a passive ability in the UI named “disheartened infantry” that states “disheartened troops fight poorly when no supporting infantry units are nearby”


Ostruppen already have a lot of contexual bonuses. If we layer even more on it, we risk making a very convulted unit that needs a cheat sheet to remember everything it does.
19 Dec 2020, 06:03 AM
#78
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884

The problem isn't with Osttruppen as much as it is with Panzergrenadiers. The Osttruppen just hold you over and let you cap until you get super early Panzergrens. A unit that outperforms Rfilemen, is basically immune to Infantry Sections, and is only really effectively countered by Penals based on their timing.
19 Dec 2020, 15:27 PM
#79
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 219

panzergrens are great, but expensive,far from being invincible like you say CODGUY.
are we playing the same game here?
19 Dec 2020, 22:05 PM
#80
avatar of IJustDontCare

Posts: 62

Have we ever thought of (off topic from ostruppen), but simply giving Ostheer a stronger starting unit than Pioneers? Nerfing ostruppen more will just make them disappear.
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