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Osttruppen Discussion and Feedback

What Changes Should Happen To Osttruppen
Option Distribution Votes
37%
32%
18%
12%
Total votes: 65
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
14 Dec 2020, 20:41 PM
#1
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

As you all know, Osttruppen have been a major player in the meta thanks to the unit's ability to quickly take map control, bypass the Ostheer T1 for faster tech, and cost efficiency, particularly versus the Soviets.

In the recent mod preview, there are two changes in play which are meant to speed the testing process with only one of those changes being decided based on feedback for all the Truppen commanders in the final release for live.

-Osttruppen Commander's Osttruppen are built from the HQ rather than called-in: 25 second build
time, 200 manpower.

-Community Defensive Commander Osttruppen are called in from off-map: 35 second ability recharge
time, 220 manpower.

Now the question is, what solution would seem like the best for the Osttruppen? I've placed a poll above to help gather some feedback. There is another option, however, which is the unit requiring the tier 1 to be built as a possible idea.

If you have other ideas, you can write them in response in this topic.
14 Dec 2020, 20:46 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17629 | Subs: 9

I feel like they would underperform if they had increased cost.
T1 requirement is all they would need in light of other changes.
14 Dec 2020, 21:13 PM
#3
avatar of gunther09
Donator 22

Posts: 517

simply longer cooldown
14 Dec 2020, 21:17 PM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13368 | Subs: 1

The problem with T0 call-in units is that they arrival timed is heavily depended on map, especially for Oss who "saving grace" is they capping petential.

They should all be move to HQ and normalize their timing across maps.

In addition their Lmg upgrade should be be replaced with something else.
14 Dec 2020, 21:20 PM
#5
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 897

Went with increased cost and cooldown but I think just cooldown really. Should slow down their capping potential enough. Not an expert 1v1er so take with a pinch of salt.
14 Dec 2020, 21:56 PM
#6
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 717

Increase colddown OR increase cost
14 Dec 2020, 23:58 PM
#7
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

Am I the only one who is baffled that we still have ANY cp 0 call-in infantry? If it's cp 0 toss it in the HQ. For everyones doc infantry: ostrup, ass grens, ass engineers, Pathfinders, etc. You can make those squads stronger if they can't be instantly spawned at 0:01

Being able to click squads on to the map in the opening of the game, especially cheap ones, makes no fucking sense to me

I honestly think every unit should have a build timer, but don't need to change everything at this point
15 Dec 2020, 00:13 AM
#8
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Am I the only one who is baffled that we still have ANY cp 0 call-in infantry? If it's cp 0 toss it in the HQ. For everyones doc infantry: ostrup, ass grens, ass engineers, Pathfinders, etc. You can make those squads stronger if they can't be instantly spawned at 0:01

Being able to click squads on to the map in the opening of the game, especially cheap ones, makes no fucking sense to me

I honestly think every unit should have a build timer, but don't need to change everything at this point

Aaand thread.
A big problem with the ostroppen t2 rush is that combined with your starting squad, you can have 2 squads capping from 1 second into the game and another building. Add em to t0 and have em build- they may even be in order for some nerf roll backs then to return them closer to their manpower effecient defenders role
15 Dec 2020, 00:18 AM
#9
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1602 | Subs: 3

I voted for call-in with T1 requirement.

I'd set it up as follows:
  • BP1 cost change reverted from 50 to 40 fuel, fuel cost moved back to T1.
  • Osttruppen and Assault Grenadiers require T1 built before they can be called in.
  • Assault Grenadier cost from 280 to 260 manpower.
  • Recharge times and everything else remains the same.

This has the most benefits and not many drawbacks:
  • 2 MG42 + 2 Pio builds and T1 with Osttruppen builds not affected (these are not considered problematic builds, nerfing these would just harm diversity, which is what more expensive Osttruppen / BP1 would do).
  • Good timing delay on MG42 + 3 Osttruppen builds (1:53 T1 vs 1:48 35sec 220mp vs 1:35 live). Also, most of the added cost is upfront and the Pioneers will be busy building T1 at the start (all add up to a less oppressive early game). MG42 + 3 Gren builds take 2:42 to field.
  • Panzergrenadiers and T2 delayed for Osttruppen and Assault Grenadier builds.
  • Wouldn't be just a straight up cost nerf to MG42 + 3 Osttruppen builds, but give access to earlier Faust and T1 units.
15 Dec 2020, 01:35 AM
#10
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 478

I actually think the problem with Ostruppen isn't the Ostruppen themselves currently in the patch preview but being able to still get P-Grens before the 5 minute mark which is extremely strong against all factions. But if P-Grens aren't moved back to Tier 2 then move Ostruppen to Tier 1 but make them be buildable instead of a call-in unit.
15 Dec 2020, 02:25 AM
#11
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 605


I voted for call-in with T1 requirement.
  • Osttruppen and Assault Grenadiers require T1 built before they can be called in.


This is the best solution because it doesn't over complicate things and you know exactly what the delay will be regardless of the build.

Adding to big a cooldown or making them buildable from T0 will simply kill the strat.

The bigger issue however is that on certain maps against certain factions Ost struggles to get a decent foothold on the map without using struppen /assgrens, which then can have the knockon effect of being on the backfoot for the rest of the game.

For ex vs Soviets on crossroads, without struppen the ost player is almost assured of being pushed of the map at some stage in the first 5 minutes.

Or Vs brits on crossing, almost impossible to stop brits getting to AC.

TBH I dont think struppen can be properly adjusted without balancing ost to be fully viable without any commander support, but that is perhaps to big a challenge.
15 Dec 2020, 02:30 AM
#12
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 605


Aaand thread.
A big problem with the ostroppen t2 rush is that combined with your starting squad, you can have 2 squads capping from 1 second into the game and another building. Add em to t0 and have em build- they may even be in order for some nerf roll backs then to return them closer to their manpower effecient defenders role


You do realize struppen have 20 sec cooldown when the game starts.

15 Dec 2020, 03:58 AM
#13
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 883

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2020, 20:46 PMKatitof
I feel like they would underperform if they had increased cost.
T1 requirement is all they would need in light of other changes.


OST and to a lesser extent OKW has always had units that overpreform for their cost and Osttruppen are just one of many.
15 Dec 2020, 07:03 AM
#14
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13368 | Subs: 1

I voted for call-in with T1 requirement.

I'd set it up as follows:
  • BP1 cost change reverted from 50 to 40 fuel, fuel cost moved back to T1.
  • Osttruppen and Assault Grenadiers require T1 built before they can be called in.
  • Assault Grenadier cost from 280 to 260 manpower.
  • Recharge times and everything else remains the same.

This has the most benefits and not many drawbacks:
  • 2 MG42 + 2 Pio builds and T1 with Osttruppen builds not affected (these are not considered problematic builds, nerfing these would just harm diversity, which is what more expensive Osttruppen / BP1 would do).
  • Good timing delay on MG42 + 3 Osttruppen builds (1:53 T1 vs 1:48 35sec 220mp vs 1:35 live). Also, most of the added cost is upfront and the Pioneers will be busy building T1 at the start (all add up to a less oppressive early game). MG42 + 3 Gren builds take 2:42 to field.
  • Panzergrenadiers and T2 delayed for Osttruppen and Assault Grenadier builds.
  • Wouldn't be just a straight up cost nerf to MG42 + 3 Osttruppen builds, but give access to earlier Faust and T1 units.

Half of Ostheer problems are that they need to get T1 up to get an infatry out so moving Ostt and AG in T1 will simply kill these doctrines.
15 Dec 2020, 07:19 AM
#15
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 539 | Subs: 1

Buff grens and then nerf truppen. As it stands ostruppen has to hard carry the entire faction on its back and nerfing it will destroy the faction.
15 Dec 2020, 07:43 AM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13368 | Subs: 1

Buff grens and then nerf truppen. As it stands ostruppen has to hard carry the entire faction on its back and nerfing it will destroy the faction.

Soviet opening is getting buffs this patch, USF opening (apart mechanized) are getting buffs this patch if ostheer also get buff when will this power creep stop?
15 Dec 2020, 08:07 AM
#17
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 840 | Subs: 1

I voted for call-in with T1 requirement.

I'd set it up as follows:
  • BP1 cost change reverted from 50 to 40 fuel, fuel cost moved back to T1.
  • Osttruppen and Assault Grenadiers require T1 built before they can be called in.
  • Assault Grenadier cost from 280 to 260 manpower.
  • Recharge times and everything else remains the same.



I really dont see any reason to move Assgrens behind t1; Assgrens in their current state are NOT over performing, there completely fine.
And I really doubt that it's a wise decision to do such drastic changes because of 1 op Unit (osttruppen) that is ONLY op in the least played game mode. Right now the 1v1 mode has taken all the team modes hostage.
If you decide to move Assgrens behind t1 then you also have to look at Pathfinders and other allied 0Cp call-in units.
15 Dec 2020, 08:30 AM
#19
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2

I voted for call-in with T1 requirement.

I'd set it up as follows:
  • BP1 cost change reverted from 50 to 40 fuel, fuel cost moved back to T1.
  • Osttruppen and Assault Grenadiers require T1 built before they can be called in.
  • Assault Grenadier cost from 280 to 260 manpower.
  • Recharge times and everything else remains the same.

This has the most benefits and not many drawbacks:
  • 2 MG42 + 2 Pio builds and T1 with Osttruppen builds not affected (these are not considered problematic builds, nerfing these would just harm diversity, which is what more expensive Osttruppen / BP1 would do).
  • Good timing delay on MG42 + 3 Osttruppen builds (1:53 T1 vs 1:48 35sec 220mp vs 1:35 live). Also, most of the added cost is upfront and the Pioneers will be busy building T1 at the start (all add up to a less oppressive early game). MG42 + 3 Gren builds take 2:42 to field.
  • Panzergrenadiers and T2 delayed for Osttruppen and Assault Grenadier builds.
  • Wouldn't be just a straight up cost nerf to MG42 + 3 Osttruppen builds, but give access to earlier Faust and T1 units.


Agreed, I don't understand why 2Pio 2MG has to suffer in order to nerf Osttruppen.
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