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Random OKW in team games – blood, guts and glory

4 Dec 2020, 13:49 PM
#21
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 758 | Subs: 1

What is this designed around low res income are you talking about really?

Beta OKW had res-disadvatange in lower income from sectors without the track and had muni-to-fuel and fuel-to-muni ability.

Past that OKW still I belive had lower income from points and hight prices. And even that was more or less removed.

OKW dont have any res.disadvantaging mechanics or holders for ages now. All this flavor has been represented in a units\tech costs, not actuall resource income.

Speaking of how caches will make them OP. Try playing against OKW paired with Ost who feeds him fuel using luftwaffe.

And speaking of teamgames, objectively x3 or x4 ost, are much harder to fight when they are playing as a team. Aswell as fighting cache boosted ost is worse then cache boosted OKW.
Because realistically speaking, the only thing OKW can provide to a team which ost cant - fast rocket arty and LVs.
4 Dec 2020, 16:48 PM
#22
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

1- Caches shouldn't provide resources to team mates.

They should be like Opel Blitz.

2- Different people should be able to build multiple caches on the same point or add a way to "attach" to them for a lesser cost.

In order to avoid people fighting over points.

3- OKW could get an upgrade on each deployed based which would let them act as a cache as long as they are on a point and no more than 1 will work per point.

More or less making reference to their initial design without forcing them to be in the front.
4 Dec 2020, 18:07 PM
#23
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3459 | Subs: 2

1- Caches shouldn't provide resources to team mates.

They should be like Opel Blitz.


I've thought of that, but that's literally gonna open the door to 4v4 toxicity and teamkilling to an unprecedented degree.


Multiple caches on one point sounds implausible without mod tools.
4 Dec 2020, 18:16 PM
#24
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2386 | Subs: 2

The game tracks which player captured a point. Is it possible to exploit that for cache building? Only who captured the point can cache it?
This way there might be weird cap stealing, but overall that's surely not as wide spread as team killing for caches
4 Dec 2020, 18:30 PM
#25
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 758 | Subs: 1

I honestly dont think that whole cache rework is nessesry anyway. It works as it is, while not perfect ppl got used to it at this point.

And back to the point of OKW. Main reasons they were left without caches were:
1) Overpowered veterancy - removed
2) Cheap tech and strong tech structures - removed
3) No side grades on tech - removed
4) Hell of a lot AT (volks schreck) - removed
5) Cheap and strong mobile suppresion platform (kubel) - removed
6) God like KT - removed
7) Build-in resource manipulation - removed
8) Boosts from sectors track deployed in - removed
9) Cheaper units - removed
10) Competly different units in tracks, like JP4 in med track - removed

So honestly lack of OKW caches is over-all gimmick from the past, which was never been removed for some reason. Right now all it does is just punishes hight\full stack OKW players in a match.

I dont see any objective reason, why they cant build them. Scavange maybe, but it aswell can be moved to a commanders who have it, its more of an easy support weapon destoyer rather then resource gaining ability.
4 Dec 2020, 18:37 PM
#26
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1


8) Boosts from sectors track deployed in - removed
11) Ability to deploy FlakHQ as a first track - removed

I don't remember those ever being implement in any official version of the game.
4 Dec 2020, 18:40 PM
#27
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 758 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2020, 18:37 PMVipper

I don't remember those ever being implement in any official version of the game.

Yeah 11 was in a beta, then I remembered it was removed before release.

Regarding 8, I thought it did managed to get past release, but I might be wrong here, cant remember for sure.

What I remember for sure is that they had a lower income from points, with track providing boosted income. Maybe that didnt get into a release.
4 Dec 2020, 18:41 PM
#28
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



I've thought of that, but that's literally gonna open the door to 4v4 toxicity and teamkilling to an unprecedented degree.


Multiple caches on one point sounds implausible without mod tools.


Point 1 only goes if point 2 is possible in any sort of way.

Although the reason it's not toxicity rather than denying options to players.

The CoH2 team base playerbase is already a bit too snowflaky and prone to toxicity, if someone wants to team kill or troll they will found any excuse to behave in that way. I've seen this exact same excuse in other games (MOBAs) which forces you way more to interact with your teammates. People afraid of abilities which interact with allied players and how they can potentially be used to grief.
4 Dec 2020, 18:46 PM
#29
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1


Yeah 11 was in a beta, then I remembered it was removed before release.

Regarding 8, I thought it did managed to get past release, but I might be wrong here, cant remember for sure.

I have played Alpha and beta and I do not remember being able build T3 as first truck.

The resources in alpha worked differently but not us with bonus as you describe (COH1 UKF style). (have singed and NDA and can not give more info on the topic).
4 Dec 2020, 19:04 PM
#30
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 493

Chaches for OKW would only make a difference in team games if its an all OKW team, but i don't think it would be any different from a team of 3 okw + 1 supportive ost that builds all the chaches.

Teams of only one faction, allies and ostheer too have shortcomings as well, but those can be usually fixed with doctrines. The lack of chaches for an all okw team is however something that can't be fixed (223 doesn't really count as it benefits only 1 player).

Ostheer building chaches for okw in teamgames is easily the most impactful factions synergy, but it shouldn't be necessary imo.
4 Dec 2020, 21:04 PM
#31
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

I really like it. It teaches you to be careful with your units and resources. It also teaches the importance of map control (ok, not really since 4v4 map control is extremely simplistic).
4 Dec 2020, 22:55 PM
#32
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1035 | Subs: 1

just spam salvage and wreck 223s
Pip
5 Dec 2020, 03:12 AM
#33
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1503

Caches are one of the things that really ought not to be "faction flavour", given that they are an almost "afterthought" feature of every other faction.

OKW's original reasoning for not being able to build caches is long past, I'd hardly see it as causing a balance issue were they able to build them like every other faction, at this point. Salvage is a "bonus" ability, it doesn't provide close to enough resources to justify a lack of caches, and this can be "avoided" somewhat by having an OST teammate in any case.
5 Dec 2020, 03:55 AM
#34
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 678

I think could give some OKW commander ability allow build catch
5 Dec 2020, 07:52 AM
#35
avatar of SweetrollNearTheDoor

Posts: 169 | Subs: 1

The general consensus seems to be that the chance of getting 100% OKW teams in random games does not fall under the “fun RNG” category and instead can lead to very lopsided resource income in longer slug fests that players have little control over.

If the cache system could be looked at this point of the game, I’d like to see a rework utilizing elements of resource mechanics from other RTS games like C&C, Warcraft and Dawn Of War 1 and 3 (absolutely heretical I know :snfPeter: ) This would be my rework that I fEeL could make the caches a more fine tuned mechanic in the game:

1. Retain the effect of caches increasing the entire team’s income.

2. Make them like outposts in DoW 1 or supply docks in C&C that would eventually run dry – Caches are basically “supply depots” so its pretty realistic that they would not be infinite.

3. Give players the ability to Restock caches in exchange for manpower to restore the additional income.

4. Transfer caches to global team control so anyone on the team could Restock them and pitch in. (DoW3 inspired resource node upgrading that anyone on the team could invest in)

This would lead to but not limited to the following effects:
Cache mechanics would become more dynamic and not just build and forget – the balance team seems to want to increase player input on the more static units (like mortars, emplacements etc) so this would be in line with that mentality.

Resource income from caches could be quantified. For example, if the Restock would be required every 20 minutes the cache would be worth 60 fuel per teammate or 100 munitions so in 4v4 250 manpower restock / building of the cache would translate up to 240 fuel or 400 munitions for the entire team. In teamgames it would be a much better long term investment compared to the Luftwaffe Supply doc drops but caches would bear the risk of being destroyed in the middle of the “production cycle.”

Give a new type of decision in long team games where manpower income at max popcap is very limited. The restock would force the teams to choose if it is worth it to maintain the higher munition or fuel income. Player investing in the cache restock would help the rest of the team to replace their tank losses and make more off-maps available but in return they might have trouble replacing their unit losses at critical times.

The Restock mechanic would still keep OKW unique without caches but they would be able to pitch in to Restock the wehr built caches and give them a way to invest their end game manpower float.
8 Mar 2021, 16:52 PM
#36
avatar of lemmiwinks

Posts: 61

As OKW is even harder now, where are our caches? :(
9 Mar 2021, 09:06 AM
#37
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

As OKW is even harder now, where are our caches? :(


In Lelic heaven along with the rest of the useful stuff.
9 Mar 2021, 09:20 AM
#38
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 990

Then give 5 vet stars for all faction and for russians non-doc IS-2 after all T1-4.
9 Mar 2021, 09:23 AM
#39
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3246 | Subs: 1

Let's give cache to OKW, what could go wrong anyway?
9 Mar 2021, 09:48 AM
#40
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 834 | Subs: 1

Just spam 223s.


Bad idea because your teammates dont get the extra fuel / muni.
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