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[Winter Balance Update] OKW Feedback

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14 Jan 2021, 12:33 PM
#421
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 712

Not about balance mod,just idea,could remove flak emplacement weapon crew HP,just like UKF Bofos,only can be destory ,can't be neutral by kill crew,and add self destructive like PAK43?
14 Jan 2021, 14:06 PM
#422
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1201

Pip
14 Jan 2021, 14:07 PM
#423
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580

Stuka zu fuss nerf when


Does it need a nerf? If so: Why?
14 Jan 2021, 14:19 PM
#424
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 885

Stuka zu fuss nerf when


Any specifics? If it's the laser guided munitions, they tried scatter in the past and somehow made it even more OP. (I have no idea how :help: )

Stuka did get nerfed this patch, along with all the rocket arty.
14 Jan 2021, 14:29 PM
#425
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1201

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2021, 14:07 PMPip


Does it need a nerf? If so: Why?


It's ridiculous strong in team games
I really dont know why okw still have it without commander.
Just replace it with mortar halftruck already..
Just watch last "Elite" 4v4 tightrope cast
Pip
14 Jan 2021, 14:38 PM
#426
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580



It's ridiculous strong in team games
I really dont know why okw still have it without commander.
Just replace it with mortar halftruck already..
Just watch last "Elite" 4v4 tightrope cast


A mortar HT isnt comparable to rocket artillery.
14 Jan 2021, 14:41 PM
#427
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1460



It's ridiculous strong in team games
I really dont know why okw still have it without commander.
Just replace it with mortar halftruck already..
Just watch last "Elite" 4v4 tightrope cast


On one hand, OKW would be much less powerful late game in team games. On the other, they would be much stronger in 1v1s.

It's a difficult balance. One one hand stuka is irreplaceable and a must have in 2v2+. On the other, it's extremely situational in 1v1s. What to do?

If anything, that cast showed what a shitfest 4v4 is. If you don't close the game early on and if you do not pick certain commanders... 99% chance that you lose as the game progresses... especially on a map like redball. No elefant/jagd/KT/ISU152? No win for you. Late game, OKW will always dominate with a steady and careful KT play. And if you mass TDs, then obers and volks overwhelm you. Point being. Impossible to balance around all modes. Just don't play 4v4.

EDIT: since people misinterpret irreplaceable... I mean a must have. Not that it cannot be replaced by some other unit.
14 Jan 2021, 14:46 PM
#428
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1201



On one hand, OKW would be much less powerful late game in team games. On the other, they would be much stronger in 1v1s.

It's a difficult balance. One one hand stuka is irreplaceable and a must have in 2v2+. On the other, it's extremely situational in 1v1s. What to do?

irreplaceable?
They already have mobile premium mortar its more than brits have lol.
14 Jan 2021, 14:47 PM
#429
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195



It's ridiculous strong in team games
I really dont know why okw still have it without commander.
Just replace it with mortar halftruck already..
Just watch last "Elite" 4v4 tightrope cast


That match was on Red Ball Express which is a really bad map.
14 Jan 2021, 14:48 PM
#430
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 885



Axis Ball Express is a really bad map.


Fixed it for you! :clap:

Or might I suggest 'Vet III Elephant Express' or 'Jagdtiger Shooting Gallery'? 'LEFH central'? 'Xenarra's Revenge'? (Obers)
14 Jan 2021, 20:53 PM
#431
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 723



Any specifics? If it's the laser guided munitions, they tried scatter in the past and somehow made it even more OP. (I have no idea how :help: )

Stuka did get nerfed this patch, along with all the rocket arty.


Make the Rockets hit in a Wide circle area randomly, So its good at saturating areas but not at wiping entire defense lines because it can fire in straight lines, and then it couldnt also retreat path wipe that is always been bs to begin with as on most maps its super predictable.
14 Jan 2021, 20:59 PM
#432
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1460

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2021, 20:53 PMRocket


Make the Rockets hit in a Wide circle area randomly, So its good at saturating areas but not at wiping entire defense lines because it can fire in straight lines, and then it couldnt also retreat path wipe that is always been bs to begin with as on most maps its super predictable.


Retreat path wipes are only when you blob at lot, and mostly in teamgames. Making stuka scatter would make it even more deadly because when you see the first 2 shells, you can guess where the rest land. Scatter would make it downright OP considering it has huge AOE, high damage. Imagine bombarding the enemy lines with such a nukeworthy weapon.
14 Jan 2021, 21:00 PM
#433
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1



Any specifics? If it's the laser guided munitions, they tried scatter in the past and somehow made it even more OP. (I have no idea how :help: )

It probably made it too good against normal infantry (like non-support weapons i mean) The stuka isn't bad against infantry now but scatter can actually help with groups of infantry since they aren't uniform shape and can retreat instantly

The "laser guided" part makes it easier to dodge stuka rockets for squads but really difficult to avoid with support weapons that have to pack up
14 Jan 2021, 21:03 PM
#434
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 885

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2021, 20:53 PMRocket


Make the Rockets hit in a Wide circle area randomly, So its good at saturating areas but not at wiping entire defense lines because it can fire in straight lines, and then it couldnt also retreat path wipe that is always been bs to begin with as on most maps its super predictable.


So basically a Pzwerfer available early? :faint:

Weapons team spam is generally a bad idea and tbh it being punished by a stuka should happen imho. Straight lines also make it dodgeable where as a pzwerfer can't rly be dodged unless the target is very obvious and not a weapons team.

In fairness, the retreat path wipe requires some high skill levels to time it just right to have them run into it or the rockets will mostly miss.


It probably made it too good against normal infantry (like non-support weapons i mean) The stuka isn't bad against infantry now but scatter can actually help with groups of infantry since they aren't uniform shape and can retreat instantly

The "laser guided" part makes it easier to dodge stuka rockets for squads but really difficult to avoid with support weapons that have to pack up

Ah right, thanks. Yeah, very often there's a model or two just to the side of the path and thus the squad survives. I can see a bit of scatter in the right direction being a killer :faint:

Support weapons have always been good targets for arty (except maybe insta unpack stuff), I'd say working as intended.
14 Jan 2021, 21:08 PM
#435
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1


Ah right, thanks. Yeah, very often there's a model or two just to the side of the path and thus the squad survives. I can see a bit of scatter in the right direction being a killer :faint:

Support weapons have always been good targets for arty (except maybe insta unpack stuff), I'd say working as intended.

Yeah I think the balance of the stuka is actually perfect. IMO complaints about it stopped being legit once they made it die in 1 shot
15 Jan 2021, 04:46 AM
#436
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



Any specifics? If it's the laser guided munitions, they tried scatter in the past and somehow made it even more OP. (I have no idea how :help: )

Stuka did get nerfed this patch, along with all the rocket arty.


Can u explain to me how it nerfed and in which area? because it really doesn't need a nerf, it is easy to dudg, and it is the only
OKW answer against blobs, actually its need a buff not a nerf.
15 Jan 2021, 07:31 AM
#437
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1201

They delete last okw weakness - healing option.
With easy access to healing 6min stuka gonna be way more potent than now.
Just pop out stuka buy medics, blob and win.
With this patch okw gonna be even more braindead faction with answer for everything.
Meantime brits got late game mortar shells cute xd.
15 Jan 2021, 08:53 AM
#438
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

They delete last okw weakness - healing option.
With easy access to healing 6min stuka gonna be way more potent than now.
Just pop out stuka buy medics, blob and win.
With this patch okw gonna be even more braindead faction with answer for everything.
Meantime brits got late game mortar shells cute xd.

Actually it is the opposite of what u said, now OKW can go to mgs and lelgs more easily which encourage more diverse builds and not just spamming infantry, blobing actually is a bad tactic that all Allied factions can do except the British I guess.
Stuka in the right place and maybe need a buff not a nerf, and it only punish bad blobbers who don't know how to dodge.

for the healing all factions have easier healing so what is the thing u are arguing about?
15 Jan 2021, 14:45 PM
#439
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 885

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 04:46 AMOlfin


Can u explain to me how it nerfed and in which area? because it really doesn't need a nerf, it is easy to dudg, and it is the only
OKW answer against blobs, actually its need a buff not a nerf.


From the v1 change, first post of this thread. It was part of a global themed change to all rocket arty to nerf their power levels and make them less activation spammy. And improve their utility features. Pzwerfer, Katy and CalliOP got changed as well. Land Mattress got a fix to its vet II but that thing was hardly difficult to decrew.



Added in later:


EDIT: Do I think it was necessary? *shrugs* It might be better against blobs now, with the vet I napalm rockets o'doom. Won't change how I usually play lategame which is 3-4 squads vs 2 Obers and bleed the former to death.

SPGs weren't changed, but neither was CB LEFH so it's a difficult call.
15 Jan 2021, 15:27 PM
#440
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



From the v1 change, first post of this thread. It was part of a global themed change to all rocket arty to nerf their power levels and make them less activation spammy. And improve their utility features. Pzwerfer, Katy and CalliOP got changed as well. Land Mattress got a fix to its vet II but that thing was hardly difficult to decrew.

Thanks, but I thought this is a buff not a nerf, can u explain to me how this is a nerf?
note: "I think the changes to Napalm Rocket ability is the right thing to do because the Stuka take so much time to reach vet 4."


Added in later:

Yeah I remember this, but since it only affect emplacements and vehicles, I am ok with that.


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