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[Winter Balance Update] OKW Feedback

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3 Jan 2021, 18:03 PM
#381
avatar of FunPolice

Posts: 132

So this is probably a bit of a weird idea but what would people think about giving strum pioneers a cost reduction late game?

Like say after you get Panzer Authorization they would go down in cost to like 280 manpower (-20 from base) and then like 6 pop (from 7)? At least the intention is that Strums are largely ineffective late game as a combat unit and as such making it easier to get a second repair squad (or third if counting the mechanized upgrade).

Thoughts on something like this?
3 Jan 2021, 18:16 PM
#382
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889

So this is probably a bit of a weird idea but what would people think about giving strum pioneers a cost reduction late game?

Like say after you get Panzer Authorization they would go down in cost to like 280 manpower (-20 from base) and then like 6 pop (from 7)? At least the intention is that Strums are largely ineffective late game as a combat unit and as such making it easier to get a second repair squad (or third if counting the mechanized upgrade).

Thoughts on something like this?

Not sure how I feel about this, especially with the new 'improved schrecks' coming soon that aren't memeworthy on SPs any more. The sweeper upgrade massively improves their repair rate as well, I think more than any other engineer upgrade.

The thing is, Sturmpio vet II/III is no joke and they come close to Panzergrens (minus the grenades) in terms of AI performance overall. You'll have every incentive to keep that squad alive, esp as it repairs faster too. It would be a nice change to make replacing Sturmpios late game less punishing though as you've said, the upgraded mech truck alleviates a lot of the repair pressure.

3 Jan 2021, 20:13 PM
#383
avatar of SgtJonson

Posts: 143

iirc sturms repair bonus comes with both schrecks and sweeper. Of course its not additive. Can be wrong tho, didnt fact check
It's an interesting idea, but an even further pop-decrease would be the wrong approach as they already go down 1 point with the patch.
3 Jan 2021, 22:18 PM
#384
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Elite infantry are 8 pop (no exceptions), and OKW has mechanized to prevent needing 2 sturmpios late for repairs.
4 Jan 2021, 02:53 AM
#385
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

So this is probably a bit of a weird idea but what would people think about giving strum pioneers a cost reduction late game?

Like say after you get Panzer Authorization they would go down in cost to like 280 manpower (-20 from base) and then like 6 pop (from 7)? At least the intention is that Strums are largely ineffective late game as a combat unit and as such making it easier to get a second repair squad (or third if counting the mechanized upgrade).

Thoughts on something like this?


I think they just need to be cheaper and weaker.
4 Jan 2021, 03:01 AM
#386
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

I think Kubel need to have upgrade that make it more useful and worth buying , this unit still so weak even in the early game , maybe we could add an upgrade that enable it to drop healing boxes and increase its aromr and vision for example, or maybe it will get other things from the upgrade, I just think that Kubel must have this upgrade to make it better and more useful unit.
4 Jan 2021, 05:52 AM
#387
avatar of FunPolice

Posts: 132

The main idea behind a late game strum cost reduction is essentially to make it easier to replace a strum if it gets wiped. A strum wipe is just a massive set back late game compared to any other faction with their relatively cheap engineer units. I do understand that strums early game have a ton of power which is why this effect would only really happen in the very late game.
Within the balance patch discounted strums probably wouldn't be built beyond getting more repair since combat wise they aren't needed anymore. Obers will be out by then and likely have some amount of vet and volks will likely have 3+ vet and those mostly outperform strums that late into a game. The repair truck does help currently but if you end up going battlegroup as your first tech you pay a very large cost for that second repair. Just to clarify this is in no way meant to be some big buff to OKW (they already got several of those) but would kind of just be like a nice QOL thing for them. Easier replacement of the repair units in the extreme late game when the unit is largely ineffective in combat and when they would be insta wiped from rocket would just be a nice thing to see happen.
4 Jan 2021, 06:12 AM
#388
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

The main idea behind a late game strum cost reduction is essentially to make it easier to replace a strum if it gets wiped. A strum wipe is just a massive set back late game compared to any other faction with their relatively cheap engineer units. I do understand that strums early game have a ton of power which is why this effect would only really happen in the very late game.
Within the balance patch discounted strums probably wouldn't be built beyond getting more repair since combat wise they aren't needed anymore. Obers will be out by then and likely have some amount of vet and volks will likely have 3+ vet and those mostly outperform strums that late into a game. The repair truck does help currently but if you end up going battlegroup as your first tech you pay a very large cost for that second repair. Just to clarify this is in no way meant to be some big buff to OKW (they already got several of those) but would kind of just be like a nice QOL thing for them. Easier replacement of the repair units in the extreme late game when the unit is largely ineffective in combat and when they would be insta wiped from rocket would just be a nice thing to see happen.


You are right that OKW has problem in replacing dead sturms , but I think they should be cheaper and weaker from the start or at least that their should be other engineer unit for OKW which are cheaper, anyway your suggestion is good the only problem is the schrecks(I may be wrong), but in general it looks an interesting idea.
4 Jan 2021, 20:09 PM
#389
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

V5

OKW changes

Panzer II Luchs
Recent testing shows the Luchs is too potent versus garrisons as it would deal damage to everyone in the squad. The damage value has been lowered to an area between the old and new value from the last update.
- Damage modifier to garrisons from 0.5 to 0.4

Raketenwerfer
The Raketenwerfer is being modified to be less prone to the deathloop when it losses a crew member. This is on-par with the Maxim, 50cal, and Dshka changes.
- Attach time from 0.7333 to 0

Le.IG
- Should now be more responsive when firing smoke.
4 Jan 2021, 20:28 PM
#390
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889

Yes to rak deathloop being fixed, much appreciated and the cause of many a stolen rak/bleed. May inadvertently cause complaints of 'cancerous raketens' however.

Luchs change should make them deadly but not outrageous vs garrisons.

6 Jan 2021, 05:20 AM
#391
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



All Allied Transport Half-Tracks (M5 Half-track and M3 Half-track)

A feature update to encourage the usage of non-upgraded transport half-tracks by acting as an alternative source of healing for the player, similar to the 251.



I think the similar changes could be added to kubel, but after an upgrade of course,also the IRH could have healing ability too. this will make these units more viable and worth picking.
what u think ?
6 Jan 2021, 11:15 AM
#392
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 571

V5

OKW changes


Another batch of decent changes. Thanks
8 Jan 2021, 16:34 PM
#393
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13286 | Subs: 1

Pls change the RF camo.

RW is the only atg that become immobile when in camo and implementation is very player unfriendly.

Either make the camo passive and automatic when stationary or allow the unit to move at lower speed like other atg with camo.
8 Jan 2021, 17:02 PM
#394
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97

Good call actually. Both M-42 and Soviet cloaked ATGs (with doctrinal atg cloak abilitiy) can move. It looks especially dumb since the RW crew actually lifts the gun for moving but does nothing.
8 Jan 2021, 17:10 PM
#395
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1485

I don't really use Raketen, but wouldn't it be a bit broken in teamgames, especially late game? Considering it's an ATG that can retreat, so you don't risk a lot bringing it on the frontline.
Not sure though so not gonna comment further.
8 Jan 2021, 17:14 PM
#396
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97

I don't really use Raketen, but wouldn't it be a bit broken in teamgames, especially late game? Considering it's an ATG that can retreat, so you don't risk a lot bringing it on the frontline.
Not sure though so not gonna comment further.


If there's anything to call completely incosistent then it would be this. Like it's obvious it's some kind of bug since the Raketen has the moving animation during the process.

And I don't see how it's broken if it gets the same speed as cloaked Zis for example. Don't really see how retreating impacts it that much.
8 Jan 2021, 17:23 PM
#397
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13286 | Subs: 1

I don't really use Raketen, but wouldn't it be a bit broken in teamgames, especially late game? Considering it's an ATG that can retreat, so you don't risk a lot bringing it on the frontline.
Not sure though so not gonna comment further.

This is not a balance issue. This has to do with being player unfriendly.

If one use attack order the unit will stop once cloaked but will continue to "remember" the attack order and move once it is revealed for any reason (AOE damage, reckon planes, firing).

It make the unit difficult to use and since camo does not actually provide any bonuses until vet 3 unlike other ATG most people simply do not use it.

There is no actual reason for the unit to have different behavior to similar units, it is simply an unnecessary complication.
8 Jan 2021, 17:57 PM
#398
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2021, 17:23 PMVipper

This is not a balance issue. This has to do with being player unfriendly.

Giving raks movement with camo isn't a balance issue? Lol what???

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2021, 17:23 PMVipper
There is no actual reason for the unit to have different behavior to similar units, it is simply an unnecessary complication.

The retreat function is the exact reason you can't just treat it like a ZiS. No one's going to creep a ZiS behind enemy lines, because then you lose it
Don't really see how retreating impacts it that much.

How can you not see it? It allows you to be so much more aggressive with it, with or without cloaking
8 Jan 2021, 18:11 PM
#399
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13286 | Subs: 1


Giving raks movement with camo isn't a balance issue? Lol what???


The retreat function is the exact reason you can't just treat it like a ZiS. No one's going to creep a ZiS behind enemy lines, because then you lose it

How can you not see it? It allows you to be so much more aggressive with it, with or without cloaking

No one going to creep a zis behind enemy lines because the game will be over when it get there which is irrelevant to retreat.

In the end of the day simply remove camo and give and some better vet bonuses if it an issue.
8 Jan 2021, 18:16 PM
#400
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2021, 18:11 PMVipper

No one going to creep a zis behind enemy lines because the game will be over when it get there which is irrelevant to retreat.

Bullshit. Range of AT guns makes that point moot

Plus the matches where you would do this are long ones with camping anyway. Cause your target would be artillery

They already tried slower speed already and it was removed. The vet 1 speed bonus went from 100% to 25% before they changed it to locking in place
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