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[Winter Balance Update] OKW Feedback

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27 Nov 2020, 02:50 AM
#21
avatar of Elpern

Posts: 83

Definitely the most experimental changes in the okw notes, requires heavy testing
27 Nov 2020, 05:45 AM
#23
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Summer 2020: Miragefla puts the Panzer authorization change to his mod. People, including me and Borobadger, vehemently disagree after playing it that Ostwind, Hetzer and LMG Obers all arrive way too early.

November 2020: Changes make it to the preview mod.

I’m gonna help the team y playing a bunch of mod games and sending them to Jibber, but I’m posting this because I already know how this is gonna end like: Delete the schwerer change IMMEDIATELY or this is the new Grand Offensive meta for OKW.
27 Nov 2020, 06:07 AM
#24
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 517 | Subs: 1

I remember this change being implemented in one of the previews and being thrown out because t4 ostwind/hetzer rushes were OP
27 Nov 2020, 06:42 AM
#25
avatar of SgtJonson

Posts: 143

Going to test that today.

I really wished the Authorization worked fine. But with what i read it looks like there are more adjustments to make.

What i can say already. There has to be a change to authorization. It should not stay the way it is now
27 Nov 2020, 07:22 AM
#26
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 211

Summer 2020: Miragefla puts the Panzer authorization change to his mod. People, including me and Borobadger, vehemently disagree after playing it that Ostwind, Hetzer and LMG Obers all arrive way too early.

November 2020: Changes make it to the preview mod.

I’m gonna help the team y playing a bunch of mod games and sending them to Jibber, but I’m posting this because I already know how this is gonna end like: Delete the schwerer change IMMEDIATELY or this is the new Grand Offensive meta for OKW.

I dont think the Schwerer change is the problem. Its more like Battlegroup is too cheap. Going mech into schwerer is fine.
Maybe add a subtech like Usf to Battlegroup? Base Building is like 15-20 fuel for medics and leig. And with another 20~30 fuel (and manpower) you unlock everything else. So going only Bg for heal and then advance to mech is viable, while going full Bg is the same as going for mech only.
27 Nov 2020, 07:40 AM
#28
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

luchs buff to suppressive fire is ok but its vet 5 ability so its not something we are going to see properly i think.
27 Nov 2020, 08:20 AM
#29
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 379 | Subs: 1

Guys, before we lose our minds, can we test this?
27 Nov 2020, 09:12 AM
#30
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

I think the changes regarding T4 including Ostwind, Hetzer and LMG Obers are excellent.

The Ostwind will still come later than the Ostheer variant even with the changed tech costs. The OKW tech cost to get there will be 135 fuel while the Ostheer Ostwind requires 125 fuel if starting fuel is included in the calculation.

I don't like the new med+t1 combination. Just reduce the price of the medic upgrade to 10 fuel instead would be better IMO.
27 Nov 2020, 09:21 AM
#31
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

I think the changes regarding T4 including Ostwind, Hetzer and LMG Obers are excellent.

The Ostwind will still come later than the Ostheer variant even with the changed tech costs. The OKW tech cost to get there will be 135 fuel while the Ostheer Ostwind requires 125 fuel if starting fuel is included in the calculation.

Compare manpower needed for ost ostwind and okw ostwind and you'll see why everyone is concerned about ost one.
27 Nov 2020, 09:42 AM
#32
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

150 fuel cost okw vs 155 fuel cost ost. Okw requires MUCH less manpower thou. It's not even fair.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2020, 09:21 AMKatitof
Compare manpower needed for ost ostwind and okw ostwind and you'll see why everyone is concerned about ost one.


Fastest path to Ostwind:
BP1 100mp, BP2 200mp, T3 140mp, total of 440mp
SWS 70mp, BGHQ 200mp, SWS 70mp, SPHQ unupgraded 100mp, total of 440mp


Ost may need an additional 80mp and/or 100mp for T1/T2, but OKW squads are a bit more expensive. The 251/17 is also more expensive than Ost's LVs in terms of manpower. Manpower and fuel costs for Ostwind are now roughly equal. Whether or not that's okay within OKW remains to be seen (please test).
27 Nov 2020, 09:47 AM
#33
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Keep in mind Ost’s fastest Ostwind rush means skipping sniper, mainline, mortar, 222, 251 and pak40. OKW just skips a couple Light vehicles due to exclusive tech and rocket arty which is fine since you rush a super fast Ostwind.
27 Nov 2020, 09:52 AM
#34
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1




Fastest path to Ostwind:
BP1 100mp, BP2 200mp, T3 140mp, total of 440mp
SWS 70mp, BGHQ 200mp, SWS 70mp, SPHQ unupgraded 100mp, total of 440mp


Ost may need an additional 100mp for T2, but OKW squads are a bit more expensive. The 251/17 is also more expensive than Ost's LVs in terms of manpower. IIRC Ostheer also has a higher amount of starting manpower. Manpower and fuel costs for Ostwind are now roughly equal. Whether or not that's okay within OKW remains to be seen (please test).


If you are taking this path as Ostheer you are skipping medics and T2. Leaving your units easier to push off the field to small arms and leaving you very vulnerable to earlier LV rushes.

As OKW you wouldn't have these problems. Your fastest path to Ostwind doesn't involve creating openings that your enemies can exploit.
27 Nov 2020, 10:00 AM
#36
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1



If you are taking this path as Ostheer you are skipping medics and T2. Leaving your units easier to push off the field to small arms and leaving you very vulnerable to earlier LV rushes.

As OKW you wouldn't have these problems. Your fastest path to Ostwind doesn't involve creating openings that your enemies can exploit.


Yes but OKW Ostwind is doctrinal while the Ostheer variant can be combined with other early game strats such as Osttruppen and Ass Grens or overall strong doctrines like Jäger Armour or German Infantry.

Meanwhile the OKW Ostwind is locked in a mediocre doctrine. Same applies for the Flame Hetzer.
27 Nov 2020, 10:00 AM
#37
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

I think this is a great changes for OKW they really needed this buffs and they really suffer against Blobs .
27 Nov 2020, 10:02 AM
#38
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

Also UKF's centaur is locked behind 125 fuel if you include starting fuel. So I am not sure how a doctrinal Ostwind locked behind 135 fuel is crazy gamebreaking OP.

UKF still gets all the needed tools even if rushing T3 ASAP including things that OKW doesn't have like sniper and combat-oriented ultra light vehicle.
27 Nov 2020, 10:09 AM
#39
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

If you are taking this path as Ostheer you are skipping medics and T2. Leaving your units easier to push off the field to small arms and leaving you very vulnerable to earlier LV rushes.

As OKW you wouldn't have these problems. Your fastest path to Ostwind doesn't involve creating openings that your enemies can exploit.


And Ostheer can open with 2x HMG 42s that can fight with little to no manpower bleed, as opposed to OKW's pure manpower based opening build orders. Ostwind rushes without tier buildings (using PGrens or several doctrinal units) and even skipping medics were very doable. There's nuances for both factions, point being that in the end I do not think one Ostwind has a clear manpower cost advantage over the other.

That doesn't mean the new OKW Ostwind timing wouldn't be too fast within the faction itself, that will need to be tested.
27 Nov 2020, 10:23 AM
#40
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1

Battlegroup Headquarters


Nice to see that my suggestion for free medic is being tested.

About "Forward reinforcement" how about merging it with FRP and locking behind a second truck while adding only the fuel cost (FRP is already rather expensive).

Volksgrenadier


I disagree with utility of mainline infatry destroying ambient buildings, I would rather have the Flame grenade moved to ST and swapped for HE one.


Sturmpioneers

Concussion grenade should be redesigned (or replaced) as "offensive grenade" doing extra damage in unit is garrison or cover

251 IR Half-Track


The implementation in sneakeye is superior and the doctrinal 251 is superior.

In addition increase base sight, give the unit shared veterancy and vet bonuses.


Panzer II Luchs


As far as I can remember their where issues with Luch being detected easier when in camo mode.

Ostwind


Hetzer

Moving main battle to T4 makes but it does not make sense for specialized unit like the hezter and ostwind

This units should not be tied to T4, make buildable from HQ or call-in and make CP 5-6 require 2 trucks.

Hezter:
increase rear/side armor since the unit is case mate and might necessary to expose rear/side armor, move DOT damage to an ability.

251 'Walking Stuka' Rocket Half-Track

With changes to penetration remove the bonus damage to emplacements.

I would also like to test swapping the HE with incendiary one that would dealay the power of the unit.

Jaegar Light Infantry


These units (including pathfinders) are badly designed since the become more fighting units.
Suggestions:
Make critical kill a timed ability
lower pop
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