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[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback

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8 Jan 2021, 06:43 AM
#501
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

plus Late game ostheer already have better tank now you demand better infantry too?
What place for soviet then?
8 Jan 2021, 06:49 AM
#502
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

Preview patch 5.0. gren vet3 + mg42 vs cons 7 men
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D7Zux1ZFprxK2v4DHQRFhE6Fi4lovzW1/view?usp=sharing
here a result you can do another test if you not agree with.

Ostheer design is quality of unit per model but soviet is quantity.

8 Jan 2021, 06:57 AM
#503
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



agree, no reason to lock 5men stg gren as a doctrine ability if they end up performing like volks? lol wut, taking up a bonus space....

may as well make 5 men upgrade a t4 base build unlock...at least they can go against 7 men cons late games..

vsl maybe add another officer to be 6 men, with field officer abilities..
why would they perform like volks??? They are quite strong. I'm just asking if this is a nerf on top of another nerf.
8 Jan 2021, 06:58 AM
#504
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2021, 06:49 AMvgfgff
Preview patch 5.0. gren vet3 + mg42 vs cons 7 men
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D7Zux1ZFprxK2v4DHQRFhE6Fi4lovzW1/view?usp=sharing
here a result you can do another test if you not agree with.

Ostheer design is quality of unit per model but soviet is quantity.

I'm a soviet main and let me tell you that's by design.
8 Jan 2021, 07:00 AM
#505
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

why would they perform like volks??? They are quite strong. I'm just asking if this is a nerf on top of another nerf.
you might also wanna try a short range test to see who wins. Which is also by design.
8 Jan 2021, 07:07 AM
#506
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563


Agree, command panther should not have 50 sight range anymore.
But Command Panther isn't a TD + you can't make more than 1 of them at a time nor they have that kind of fire rate or long range acc. But you know you could jut nerf the Command Panthers combat abelites like speed, pen and what not to make it more of a support unit like command p4(which is what I think is a better approach).
8 Jan 2021, 07:07 AM
#507
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

why would they perform like volks??? They are quite strong. I'm just asking if this is a nerf on top of another nerf.


i dont know. the nerfs sounds like vsl grens are now closer to volks than their original design which can go toe toe with commandos and shocks and bars rifes.

anyone know how the nerf vsl grens goes up against the buff penals in the patch?
by the time vsl is reinforced with 5 men, i guess penals will be at 1-2 star vet.
how do they compare?
8 Jan 2021, 07:15 AM
#508
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



i dont know. the nerfs sounds like vsl grens are now closer to volks than their original design which can go toe toe with commandos and shocks and bars rifes.

anyone know how the nerf vsl grens goes up against the buff penals in the patch?
by the time vsl is reinforced with 5 men, i guess penals will be at 1-2 star vet.
how do they compare?
you do realize without stg upgrade volks are weaker than base 4 man grens right??? The stg change will change their non transfer able g43 to a volks stg so they don't 1 volley models. Now as far as I remember that stg was quite weaker than g43 in terms of everything. But i wonder if this will be too week. They already lost their 10% rec acc now to lose that much dps will be quite harsh.
8 Jan 2021, 07:26 AM
#509
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1


i dont know. the nerfs sounds like vsl grens are now closer to volks than their original design which can go toe toe with commandos and shocks and bars rifes.

anyone know how the nerf vsl grens goes up against the buff penals in the patch?
by the time vsl is reinforced with 5 men, i guess penals will be at 1-2 star vet.
how do they compare?


Surely the Grens themselves will also have gotten some vet before they get upgraded with VSL.
8 Jan 2021, 07:53 AM
#510
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

you do realize without stg upgrade volks are weaker than base 4 man grens right??? The stg change will change their non transfer able g43 to a volks stg so they don't 1 volley models. Now as far as I remember that stg was quite weaker than g43 in terms of everything. But i wonder if this will be too week. They already lost their 10% rec acc now to lose that much dps will be quite harsh.


yes thats what i meant, stg volks. vsl has become volks for ost?

live vsl grens can put up a fight with allies callin infantry, they dont win but the 1 volley helps to hold the ground.

patch vsl with 10% ra nerf and given worser stg, back to allies cqc and vet infantry easily pulling a win.
8 Jan 2021, 07:56 AM
#511
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738



Surely the Grens themselves will also have gotten some vet before they get upgraded with VSL.


yes thats true, just wondering how the face off be like now?

nerf Ost 'elite' vsl vs buff stock penals.
8 Jan 2021, 07:58 AM
#512
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

anyone know what is the cost of vsl grens vs shocks?

since both are doctrine ability.

which is better, before and after patch?

grens snares are the clear advantage, even though faust are bugged at times!
8 Jan 2021, 09:24 AM
#513
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Now as far as I remember that stg was quite weaker than g43 in terms of everything. But i wonder if this will be too week. They already lost their 10% rec acc now to lose that much dps will be quite harsh.


Check the numbers first before rushing to conclusions.


https://ibb.co/vQZCXvZ

DPS at point blank goes down, mid range goes up, max range goes down very slightly. Moving accuracy for the entire squad will be slightly lower. Burst potential with the G43 switched to non-focus fire damage spread for the STG44.

So all in all a small decrease / redistribution in firepower, but nothing major.
8 Jan 2021, 09:37 AM
#514
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13189 | Subs: 1

DPS 5/15/25/35

grenadier G43 10.8/5.4/3.3/2.3
Vg ST44 7.52/5.6/3.9/1.4

G43 better on the move.
8 Jan 2021, 10:00 AM
#515
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738



Check the numbers first before rushing to conclusions.


https://ibb.co/vQZCXvZ

DPS at point blank goes down, mid range goes up, max range goes down very slightly. Moving accuracy for the entire squad will be slightly lower. Burst potential with the G43 switched to non-focus fire damage spread for the STG44.

So all in all a small decrease / redistribution in firepower, but nothing major.


anyone tested live vsl with patched vsl against allies infantry?

the strength of vsl is to first strike to drop allies dps.

imo any loss in performance against stock allies infantry is very unfair.

any loss in performance against allies call-in infantry is unfair.

i think vsl is 2 or 3 cp with longer deploy times than allies.

what compensation does vsl gets to select its doctrine?
8 Jan 2021, 10:04 AM
#516
avatar of Kyle

Posts: 322


Even more intense micro? Does a 3% increased chance to be penned really drastically change your play? Like before if the enemy had a TD shooting at it you with an 85% chance to pen you would take the risk, but if it grew to 88% it would be over, GG, Gotta blast?


Not drastically but it's not gonna be the same isn't it?

And yeah I do 3 hours of 2vs2 everyday and 9 out 10 game I use brumbar, I notice the thing that mostly bounce from my front armor is AT gun round, those Allies TDs already most of the time pen my ass.

So if you gonna ask me about " risk taking " then yeah, most of the time I take my risk to do Bunker buster against Allies AT gun so that's worry me a bit.

Just my personal opinion man. I used to be ostwind main but the armor is just not good enough so I switch to brumbar/
8 Jan 2021, 10:08 AM
#517
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Check the numbers first before rushing to conclusions.


https://ibb.co/vQZCXvZ

DPS at point blank goes down, mid range goes up, max range goes down very slightly. Moving accuracy for the entire squad will be slightly lower. Burst potential with the G43 switched to non-focus fire damage spread for the STG44.

So all in all a small decrease / redistribution in firepower, but nothing major.

m8 that's a 20% ish decrease in both close max range. That is not small though. Did you do a test to see weather their combat performance remains similar.
8 Jan 2021, 10:10 AM
#518
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2021, 10:04 AMKyle


Not drastically but it's not gonna be the same isn't it?

And yeah I do 3 hours of 2vs2 everyday and 9 out 10 game I use brumbar, I notice the thing that mostly bounce from my front armor is AT gun round, those Allies TDs already most of the time pen my ass.

So if you gonna ask me about " risk taking " then yeah, most of the time I take my risk to do Bunker buster against Allies AT gun so that's worry me a bit.

Just my personal opinion man. I used to be ostwind main but the armor is just not good enough so I switch to brumbar/


yes i agree, to nerf without compensation when brumbar is the clutch unit to clear late games allies positions or marauding vetted infantry blobs.

-10 at vet0
-12 at vet2.

it counts and it hurts my soul.

and soviet fields their kv1 or kv2 with a +8% armor bulletins, i cry hard in frustation. :*(
8 Jan 2021, 10:15 AM
#519
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8



anyone tested live vsl with patched vsl against allies infantry?

the strength of vsl is to first strike to drop allies dps.

imo any loss in performance against stock allies infantry is very unfair.

any loss in performance against allies call-in infantry is unfair.

i think vsl is 2 or 3 cp with longer deploy times than allies.

That's a terrible way to argue keeping unit with OP characteristics that steps over another upgrades shoes.

what compensation does vsl gets to select its doctrine?

You don't compensate nerfing OP things.
That is why its called a nerf.
Its too strong and needs to be put in line.


m8 that's a 20% ish decrease in both close max range. That is not small though. Did you do a test to see weather their combat performance remains similar.

Now that you looked at extreme values, wipe your tears and take another look at values between range 15 and 30.

i cry hard in frustation. :*(

Not being one sided wehraboo and understanding why changes are being made will prevent that.
8 Jan 2021, 10:18 AM
#520
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738


m8 that's a 20% ish decrease in both close max range. That is not small though. Did you do a test to see weather their combat performance remains similar.


thats correct.

the doctrine is called 'german infantry'
if the vsl infantry cant even beat stock enemy units, what is the compensation?

after patch, why not rename to 'german infantry with some stamps and fireworks'

Live vsl barely hold out against allies elites, you need that first strike to do well.
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