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Commandos are too good!

29 Oct 2020, 23:30 PM
#1
avatar of lumpyspoon

Posts: 11

Their kit is overloaded, they do incredible damage up close, they can be equipped with double brens to make them good at long range too, not to mention their grenade. They have stealth too? The vet 3 free auto smoke on retreat, why? Makes me soo maaadddd aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
30 Oct 2020, 00:56 AM
#3
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 897

Shoot their face off with a light vehicle. They are incredibly nasty AI units and cannot be neglected but they are super expensive to reinforce and ez xp farm for your pz IV/LVs.
30 Oct 2020, 01:30 AM
#4
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

commandos are a problem ehh? have you ever heard of fallschirmjagers?
30 Oct 2020, 06:55 AM
#5
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

Tip: if the enemy uses commandos, then it might worth deploying a scout vehicle, namely the 222 as ostheer or the kubel or 221/223 as OKW. These vehicles can detect stealth units from further away. Additionally map hack abilities (222's infantry awareness or Kubel's detection) can reveal them on the map even further away.
30 Oct 2020, 07:06 AM
#6
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

IR STG44 Obersoldaten (Special Operations and Grand Offensive doctrines) also counter Commandos, because they can detect them from a safe distance and easily out-damage them from this mid range.
30 Oct 2020, 07:10 AM
#7
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

IR STG44 Obersoldaten (Special Operations and Grand Offensive doctrines) also counter Commandos, because they can detect them from a safe distance and easily out-damage them from this mid range.

I was just about to edit my post with them, but yes, they have even more detection range than the aforementioned scout vehicles.
30 Oct 2020, 09:20 AM
#8
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2062 | Subs: 1

yeah ive been asking myself many times why they have smoke on retreat at vet 3
30 Oct 2020, 09:48 AM
#9
avatar of Sumi

Posts: 132

30 Oct 2020, 09:58 AM
#10
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1

yeah ive been asking myself many times why they have smoke on retreat at vet 3


Don't the commandos get that in return for not getting great (or any) combat bonusses with vet3?
30 Oct 2020, 10:08 AM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13368 | Subs: 1



Don't the commandos get that in return for not getting great (or any) combat bonusses with vet3?

The get -10% received accuracy ending up with decent target size of 0.65 and great EHP.

Plus the smoke make them very difficult to wipe them out.
30 Oct 2020, 10:10 AM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17629 | Subs: 9

yeah ive been asking myself many times why they have smoke on retreat at vet 3


Might have something to do with them getting this as a vet3:



While others get something like this:

or

or
30 Oct 2020, 10:10 AM
#13
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Vehicles eat the commandos. Once they retreat, that's a victory even if they are not wiped as they cost a lot to reinforce. Don't engage with infantry, engage with a P4, and roll them over. Dead, retreat, victory either way.
30 Oct 2020, 10:16 AM
#14
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

Commandos are fine as they are. The smoke on retreat is unique and very creative, I love little things like this. Besides, they have the Bren Expert passive for extra DPS.

I was actually quite sad to see the Airlanding Officer, who was essentially an officer commando squad complete with smoke and bren expert, be changed into the Assault Officer.


They are helpless against vehicles, as others said, just like the Obersoldaten, Shock Troopers and Fallschirmjaegers.
30 Oct 2020, 10:19 AM
#15
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

I was actually quite sad to see the Airlanding Officer, who was essentially an officer commando squad complete with smoke and bren expert, be changed into the Assault Officer.


I miss the old officer charge ability. :,(
30 Oct 2020, 10:23 AM
#16
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 10:08 AMVipper

The get -10% received accuracy ending up with decent target size of 0.65 and great EHP.

Plus the smoke make them very difficult to wipe them out.


Exactly, a very poor bonus for vet3 stats wise. The smoke makes up for it.

30 Oct 2020, 10:56 AM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17629 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 10:08 AMVipper

The get -10% received accuracy ending up with decent target size of 0.65 and great EHP.

Plus the smoke make them very difficult to wipe them out.

Going by that, obers must end up with one of most overpowered EHP increases in game with their -29% received accuracy and Passive healing out of combat at vet3.

But if you want to keep this for infiltration troops, let me introduce you to -29% received accuracy storms get to their base 0.75.

So commandos still have weakest vet out there and other squads can easily get better values.

Its nice to make a unit seem OP or strong if you don't provide context or comparison with other units, but as we can see, their vet3 rec acc is not only nothing special, its pretty damn bad compared to others.

Only Falls don't get as low rec acc for an infiltration squad, but then again, their weapons aren't exactly CQC exclusively oriented.

And now I can't wait how you are going to spin vet3 commando vet into being on pair or better then storms, even tho storms get larger bonuses across all stats.
30 Oct 2020, 11:28 AM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13368 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 10:56 AMKatitof

Going by that, obers must end up with one of most overpowered EHP increases in game with their -29% received accuracy...

Unfortunately I have to explain to you the basic once more:
EHP stand for effective hit points and it used in reference to total squad HPs since for entity comparison Target is enough.

Ober have 4 entities of 80 HP each start with target size 0.7 and at vet 5 have a target size of 0.5.

Their EHP are 457 are vet 0 and 640 at vet 5

Commandos have 5 start with target size 0.72 and at vet 3 have a target size of 0.65.

Their EHP are 555 are vet 0 and g 615 at vet 3.

So they have superior EHP at vet 0 slightly inferior to vet 3 but given that the camo they are fine.
jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 10:56 AMKatitof

and Passive healing out of combat at vet3.

New flash, Commandos get passive healing earlier at vet 1, and on top that have camo so that they can hide to heal and can even reinforce form gliders.

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 10:56 AMKatitof

But if you want to keep this for infiltration troops, let me introduce you to -29% received accuracy storms get to their base 0.75.

Check previous to see what EHP means.

Also check what infiltration troops means because Commandos are air transported troops not infiltration troops.

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 10:56 AMKatitof

So commandos still have weakest vet out there and other squads can easily get better values.

If you think ST are superior to commandos you really need to play the game. The DPS drop off ST is simply crippling.

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 10:56 AMKatitof

Its nice to make a unit seem OP or strong if you don't provide context or comparison with other units, but as we can see, their vet3 rec acc is not only nothing special, its pretty damn bad compared to others.

Only Falls don't get as low rec acc for an infiltration squad, but then again, their weapons aren't exactly CQC exclusively oriented.

I hate to have to point out this to you but fall stopped being an infiltration squad years ago and are now an airdropped squad. Try installing and loading the game it will help you improve your countless posts.

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 10:56 AMKatitof

And now I can't wait how you are going to spin vet3 commando vet into being on pair or better then storms, even tho storms get larger bonuses across all stats.

Spin is your specialty, once more stop projecting your own flaws on to other.
30 Oct 2020, 12:01 PM
#19
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 10:56 AMKatitof

Going by that, obers must end up with one of most overpowered EHP increases in game with their -29% received accuracy and Passive healing out of combat at vet3.


You are completely right mate. Effective Hit-Points have been discussed to completely mislead discussions. It blows up numbers with a massive effect to higher proportions making units look as if they are OP while In fact, they're not. EHP is just another way of manipulating numbers and it is very also VERY misleading. It spins and turns around the truth. Nobody uses EHP in-game either in the heat of a moment. It's so misleading that anyone could even say that every tank has an EHP from their max HP to infinity. Actually, every unit can be made look OP by misleading numbers by throwing some arbitrary EHP changes to it. I'd prefer people avoiding misleading, spinning and manipulating numbers with nonsense maths just to somehow show that a unit is OP and needs nerfs. There's also the double standard of not using the same approach on units of a different faction for some reason.

Any unit can be made looking to have OP stats if used some weird combo of their EHP EFD DPS ABM or TTK.
30 Oct 2020, 12:45 PM
#20
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1



You are completely right mate. Effective Hit-Points have been discussed to completely mislead discussions. It blows up numbers with a massive effect to higher proportions making units look as if they are OP while In fact, they're not. EHP is just another way of manipulating numbers and it is very also VERY misleading. It spins and turns around the truth. Nobody uses EHP in-game either in the heat of a moment. It's so misleading that anyone could even say that every tank has an EHP from their max HP to infinity. Actually, every unit can be made look OP by misleading numbers by throwing some arbitrary EHP changes to it. I'd prefer people avoiding misleading, spinning and manipulating numbers with nonsense maths just to somehow show that a unit is OP and needs nerfs. There's also the double standard of not using the same approach on units of a different faction for some reason.

Any unit can be made looking to have OP stats if used some weird combo of their EHP EFD DPS ABM or TTK.


Stats can be very misleading.
Conscripts have a lot more EHP than grenadiers, but still have only a 50/50 chance of winning engagements.

Likewise, Commandos are a lot more squishy than Obers, despite having more 'EHP', because most weapons do more damage up close, which is the range where Commandos need to go to do any damage, often having to abondon any cover bonus along the way. Obers on the other hand can hapily shoot from max range where they will take a lot less damage from enemy rifles and they don't have to move out of cover.
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