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Tweak Fallschirmjäger - OKW

7 Oct 2020, 20:57 PM
#1
avatar of WunderKatze

Posts: 15

Fallschirmjager should have one of a couple things happen to them. Either lower there on the move accuracy, replace their super grenade with a normal one or tone down their vet received accuracy.

Fallschirmjager are not OP to say, but they are easy to abuse. My main issue with them is the only two ways to counter them is 1: vehicles (which can be impossible if you are behind) 2: is be lucky to get the drop on them because they are squishy. This issue if compounded if you are playing USF who can't really succeed by green cover camping.

They have completely nutty dps and paired with the super grenade its too easy to just get unlucky with bad pathing and get wiped when fighting them.
7 Oct 2020, 21:04 PM
#2
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8989 | Subs: 1

I would rather have them redesign as an infiltration unit.

The airdropped ones could be move to Ostheer Luft doctrine.
7 Oct 2020, 21:11 PM
#3
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 82

Falls are already very squishy. Nerf the FG42s DPS by lowering its cooldown/accuracy if possible.
7 Oct 2020, 22:19 PM
#4
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2966 | Subs: 1

Banned
Straight up remove the 2 FG42 upgrade and remove their bundle grenade. Then reduce cost a bit.
8 Oct 2020, 01:08 AM
#5
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 704

Change them to 5 man squad with 2 fg42 upgrade that similar to bar and replace blunder nade with normal nade. May be.
8 Oct 2020, 02:13 AM
#6
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 303

Change them to 5 man squad with 2 fg42 upgrade that similar to bar and replace blunder nade with normal nade. May be.

Please, no. Keep some squads unique, enough of this +2 cool weapons mainstream already.

Also only reason why Falls were fiddled with in the first place is because some people didn't prefer them over Obers and the intention was to make Luftwaffe Ground Forces more appealing. You usually don't pick elite infantry doctrine if you already have the best elite infantry stock. Imho, the doctrine should have just received something else extra (like tank commander upgrade or ostwind) instead of making falls 10/10 infantry murderer that makes infantry gameplay obsolete, because no MG or green cover position can win you a fight vs Falls-blob. Imagine being able to fit 3 LMG Paratroopers into a build order - it's this kind of infantry play tactical depth in a real time strategy game.
8 Oct 2020, 08:11 AM
#7
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 285

I also agree that falls need some rework, both as an user (even tho its fun mowing down any infantry opposition with them) and opponent (very annoying to deal with them). In fact with all 4 models alive with 4 fg42s do more dps at long range than an ober squad with a single lmg34 (tho they lose their dps much faster with each model lost) and do significantly more damage at close range, only slightly worse than stg obers (if we don't account their anti cover bonus).
Personally I would put more emphasis on falls' camoflage ability, allowing them to stay invisible for a short duration after leaving cover, while generally reducing their effectiveness in regular combat. Perhaps they could regain their faust then too. In essence I would make them more similar to stormtroopers and commandos in use.
8 Oct 2020, 12:18 PM
#8
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 708

why ppl want to nerf them? Falls are a doctrine locked elite infantry unit (hence why the Faust got removed) as they are supposed to be specialised anti inf unit and a great alternative to obers. Volks cant stand on ther own vs allied inf and need anti AI units like falls in support. they are also very squishy due to 4 man and lose 25% of dps when a model gets dropped
8 Oct 2020, 12:21 PM
#9
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 708


Please, no. Keep some squads unique, enough of this +2 cool weapons mainstream already.

Also only reason why Falls were fiddled with in the first place is because some people didn't prefer them over Obers and the intention was to make Luftwaffe Ground Forces more appealing. You usually don't pick elite infantry doctrine if you already have the best elite infantry stock. Imho, the doctrine should have just received something else extra (like tank commander upgrade or ostwind) instead of making falls 10/10 infantry murderer that makes infantry gameplay obsolete, because no MG or green cover position can win you a fight vs Falls-blob. Imagine being able to fit 3 LMG Paratroopers into a build order - it's this kind of infantry play tactical depth in a real time strategy game.


the reason you cant fit 3 paratroopers is because of riflemen being mixed with free squads which you get when u tech and you dont have a choice in getting them. If okw got free squads while teching, it would be impossible to fix 3 falls too.

Any blob of inf will walk through MG's, not just falls. They dont make inf obsolete, it just means you need to upgrade your main line inf with bars, lmg or brens if your UKF
8 Oct 2020, 14:53 PM
#10
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 303

the reason you cant fit 3 paratroopers is because of riflemen being mixed with free squads which you get when u tech and you dont have a choice in getting them. If okw got free squads while teching, it would be impossible to fix 3 falls too.

Except Falls are CP2 compared to CP3 Paras and OKW can build Kubel which is okayish in early game as it doesn't bleed you and once it dies you can replace it with real infantry, it pays for itself, so you can more or less stall for Falls. You can't stall for Paras, because any unit you build by the time Paras are available will bleed you MP. Also Sturpio is actually a competent squad to fight with in the early game compared to RE, so you can get away with less mainline squads in the first few minutes of the game. Of course it depends on the faction matchup as it may be tough vs brits. Talking from 2v2 perspective. In larger teamgames you can also partially rely on your teammates for the first 5 minutes before you get your first squad of Falls.

Any blob of inf will walk through MG's, not just falls. They dont make inf obsolete, it just means you need to upgrade your main line inf with bars, lmg or brens if your UKF
You make it sound like there is no AI performance difference between Sections/Rifles and Falls.

I like how you can fit more doctrinal infantry in your build order, I just don't like how strong Falls have become with the ROF, medium range and other changes they have been put through.
8 Oct 2020, 15:02 PM
#11
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 265 | Subs: 1

Is no one going to talk about the 36MP reinforcement cost?

They still lose to 2xLMG Paras or Thompson Paras, pick your realistic range.

They do seem to have a very high AI power I'll say that much but they don't give much for the late game in that doc either.
8 Oct 2020, 15:12 PM
#12
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 343

Falls are fine as they are. Their faust got removed and they should be meat grinders. Do not nerf falls! They are expensive, bleedy and great AI. Enough said. Leave them be
8 Oct 2020, 15:39 PM
#13
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 86

very strong AI unit, honestly don't use them anymore after they removed the faust. (drop them behind enemy lines to take out artillery etc.)

the falls is more or less the only thing that the doctrine has going for it. everything else in the doc is ok or meh.
nerf the falls and that doctrine will become of little use.

True there are few infantry that can deal with it, but i think that normally only brits will struggle against them unless they get some doctrine against falls, rest get access to katy's and scott's
8 Oct 2020, 15:46 PM
#14
avatar of A table

Posts: 238

The issue with Falls is that they somewhat overlap with the role of Obers, despite different pricetags and a couple of abilities. I don't get Obers when i have bundled grenades on airborne infantry with automatic rifles.

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2020, 21:04 PMVipper
I would rather have them redesign as an infiltration unit.

The airdropped ones could be move to Ostheer Luft doctrine.


That isn't an awful idea, but we'd have to make them more thematic and not compete with Obers at range(already have JLI for that). Give them Assgrens MP40's, with an upgrade for 2 FG42's for somewhat more ranged damage. Replace the bundled grenade with the stick grenade that Pfussies have. Not entirely sure if they need the corrosive smoke grenade either, could be removed or replaced with regular smoke grenades(share cooldown?).
8 Oct 2020, 16:23 PM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8989 | Subs: 1

...
That isn't an awful idea, but we'd have to make them more thematic and not compete with Obers at range(already have JLI for that). Give them Assgrens MP40's, with an upgrade for 2 FG42's for somewhat more ranged damage. Replace the bundled grenade with the stick grenade that Pfussies have.

Yes they should not be ranged oriented if they become an infiltration unit.


Not entirely sure if they need the corrosive smoke grenade either, could be removed or replaced with regular smoke grenades(share cooldown?).

imo "Blendkörper 2H Frangible Smoke Grenade" should be closer to its real life purpose and be an antitank tank weapons. More like a timed disable snare and become available to appropriate units.
8 Oct 2020, 16:28 PM
#16
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 708


Except Falls are CP2 compared to CP3 Paras and OKW can build Kubel which is okayish in early game as it doesn't bleed you and once it dies you can replace it with real infantry, it pays for itself, so you can more or less stall for Falls. You can't stall for Paras, because any unit you build by the time Paras are available will bleed you MP. Also Sturpio is actually a competent squad to fight with in the early game compared to RE, so you can get away with less mainline squads in the first few minutes of the game. Of course it depends on the faction matchup as it may be tough vs brits. Talking from 2v2 perspective. In larger teamgames you can also partially rely on your teammates for the first 5 minutes before you get your first squad of Falls.

You make it sound like there is no AI performance difference between Sections/Rifles and Falls.

I like how you can fit more doctrinal infantry in your build order, I just don't like how strong Falls have become with the ROF, medium range and other changes they have been put through.


paras come in at 3cp, because once they get upgraded they become THE best anti AI inf in the game with 6 man and LMG's. Yet even though they are so powerful you don't see them much, because of USF and its free officers thus the difficulty in fitting them in. the point your trying to make is something i already said about paras, can you not read what i said properly earlier? AND where did i say sections/rifles and falls have the same AI? stop putting words in my mouth, you clearly said a blob of falls can not be stopped by MG, and i merely pointed out, other blobs can do the same. falls were buffed for a reason, and they were initially OP, and ther stats got nerfed and Faust removed later.
8 Oct 2020, 16:46 PM
#17
avatar of WunderKatze

Posts: 15

why ppl want to nerf them? Falls are a doctrine locked elite infantry unit (hence why the Faust got removed) as they are supposed to be specialised anti inf unit and a great alternative to obers. Volks cant stand on ther own vs allied inf and need anti AI units like falls in support. they are also very squishy due to 4 man and lose 25% of dps when a model gets dropped


I don't think they need a big change. They are very squishy which in some situations balances out their dps. My issue is they are such a swing unit between the grenade and the super dps.

I would rather want to add a weakness. Like worse on the move accuracy so that they can dominate but they can't win fights against units that are actively pathing away like most infantry.

Or change their bundle grenade with a normal one so fighting them is a bit more predictable.

8 Oct 2020, 17:28 PM
#18
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 221

Considering the outstanding perf of the OKW recently, I don't think any nerf on the faction is wise, more so that nerfing the elite infantry of a doctrine which has just that to offer is quite undesirable.
8 Oct 2020, 18:14 PM
#19
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 265 | Subs: 1

Considering the outstanding perf of the OKW recently, I don't think any nerf on the faction is wise, more so that nerfing the elite infantry of a doctrine which has just that to offer is quite undesirable.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

10/10 rating.
8 Oct 2020, 19:22 PM
#20
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7389 | Subs: 1

Interesting unit to complain about. Pass.
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