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Why Soviets are OP

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23 Sep 2020, 13:26 PM
#61
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

Heh, I can make a similar list for OKW from Soviet viewpoint. :P

1. Sturmpios - Insanely strong vs Soviets because it doesnt have early cqc squad
2. Sandbags - Volks behind sandbags are the most cost efficient unit in the game, you need at least two close range infantry squads to dislodge them
3. Fast repair - OKW needs a single enginner squad and also has repairs at base while soviets need 2-3 enginner squads to be effective, taking up pop cap
4. Stuka - straight out broken, distance doesn't affect scatter
5. PzII and Puma - Super reliable Anti Infantry and Anti Vehicle combo, very high wipe potential, Puma has smoke too, only weakness is price
6. Map hack - the kübel's vet1 and the uhu's ability shuts down any flanking attempt
7. Pop Cap - 100 Pop OKW army straight up beats 100 pop Soviet army, OKW has far better units
8. PzIV - insanely strong all rounder
9. King Tiger - Wipe machine, excellent range and strong AT, unbeatable on certain maps
10. ISG - more range than regular mortar thus hardly counterable, op
11. Panther - best tank hunter tank
12. Raketen - can retreat, obviously op
13. Pfusiliers - even stronger than volks late game, has a better snare ability and can launch flares, shuts down any vehicle play
14. Obers - just unbeatable, at long range their lmg, at close range their nade shreds infantry

(for those who don't get it I'm just being sarcastic :P )

((jokes aside, I'm not really seeing this thread getting anywhere, lock maybe?))


This thread contains more substance than 99% of threads in this forum. Why would it be closed? If anything mods could clean up the banter comments.
23 Sep 2020, 13:32 PM
#62
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:25 PMGiaA


Once again, my sniper argument should be self evident to anyone who plays the game. But let me explain it: The sniper is not efficient enough vs Cons because one kill is worth way less.

The manpower reduction for 7men cons is indeed insignificant and I never claimed otherwise.

You should revise your BO and counter choices if you're using sniper vs 7 man cons.
It is equally stupid to use one against osttruppen, but you don't see people complaining that sniper is not effective counter to osttruppen for some reason.

7 man cons are to OUTLAST opponent, not to outDPS him.
They are resistant to attrition units by design.
23 Sep 2020, 13:35 PM
#63
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 12:37 PMKatitof

Precisely.


Where are factual arguments here?
Its just a bunch of opinions from a player who, from this list here, seems to struggle vs hard AI.

You are incapable or unable of producing a single argument that would be based on facts.
You provided no stats, you provided no interactions that you consider "op", you provided no replays.

You said "IZ OP CUZ I SAYZ SO, SO IZ OP" and put that on a loop and expect anyone except ullumulu or achpawel to agree with you?


Not a fan of statistical arguments. Direct comparisons of unit stats are pointless because there are too many factors involved. It's easier to just discuss the gameplay itself. Statistics only become relevant when talking about the exact implementation of changes. All my complaints are rooted in actual standard 1v1 gameplay. Every 1v1 player would at least understand where I'm coming from even if they disagree with the "OP" conclusion. You know it's absurd attacking me for my skill in this forum :)
23 Sep 2020, 13:37 PM
#64
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:32 PMKatitof

You should revise your BO and counter choices if you're using sniper vs 7 man cons.
It is equally stupid to use one against osttruppen, but you don't see people complaining that sniper is not effective counter to osttruppen for some reason.

7 man cons are to OUTLAST opponent, not to outDPS him.
They are resistant to attrition units by design.


So? I was explaining why soviet sandbags are even stronger than brit sandbags. Never said there's anything wrong with the sniper vs soviet dynamic.
23 Sep 2020, 13:49 PM
#65
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:35 PMGiaA


Not a fan of statistical arguments. Direct comparisons of unit stats are pointless because there are too many factors involved.

This is why I also consider replays more valid.
Replay where?


It's easier to just discuss the gameplay itself.

All game is balanced.
You can not change my mind.
You are completely wrong, always were, always will be, I am completely right, I do not need to say why, because I'm so right, it almost feels wrong.
I played this one game and it proven all what I'm saying correct.
No, you can not see the game. No, I will not describe what happened, all you need to know is it happened and I'm right.
But its right and I am right.
And its right that you are wrong.

(this is how discussing "gameplay itself" looks like with people who do not argument using stats or replays. This is how this very thread looks like.

Statistics only become relevant when talking about the exact implementation of changes.

If you are incapable of identifying and explaining a problem, you are incapable of fixing it and no amount of theorycraft will change that.

All my complaints are rooted in actual standard 1v1 gameplay. Every 1v1 player would at least understand where I'm coming from even if they disagree with the "OP" conclusion. You know it's absurd attacking me for my skill in this forum :)

Are they tho?
You are not providing arguments of your own and if you wanted to link all the previous threads in one place, you could've used links.

Also, players disagreed with you, you disregarded them and deflected ACTUAL ARGUMENTS.
This thread is pointless, because you're hopeless and there is nothing to discuss based on what you've written in the op.

Its a cry/rant thread, not balance one.


@Moderation
Whatever happened to that rule that prohibited having a threat in balance section if OP doesn't use evidence or stats?
23 Sep 2020, 13:56 PM
#66
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:00 PMGiaA

1. Remove all Mainline Inf sandbags across the board.

why?
jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:00 PMGiaA

2. Increase mine cost to 40. (They'd still be used i guarantee it)

OKW and ost mines aswell

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:00 PMGiaA

4. Make ZIS Barrage Vet ability and increase cooldown

this would make the zis an underwhelming AT gun... you could just either increase cooldown or make the zis more expensive...

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:00 PMGiaA

7. Ideally I'd remove 7men con upgrade but I do understand that this would probably require giving penals a more prominent role or makin shocks/guards stock

the 7 man upgrade isnt even as good as LMG42s/m1919/BAR/Bren/stg but sure lets drive a stake through it and remove conscripts out of the game completely..

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:00 PMGiaA

1. Buff maxim suppression slightly. I feel like this unit is always either op or up with no in between depending on how much suppression it causes. Would be hard to find the sweet spot


slightly wont cut it... just make it a 6 man MG42 with deathloop and it should be balanced (as deathloop cancels out the 6 man advantage)


23 Sep 2020, 13:58 PM
#67
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:49 PMKatitof

This is why I also consider replays more valid.
Replay where?



All game is balanced.
You can not change my mind.
You are completely wrong, always were, always will be, I am completely right, I do not need to say why, because I'm so right, it almost feels wrong.
I played this one game and it proven all what I'm saying correct.
No, you can not see the game. No, I will not describe what happened, all you need to know is it happened and I'm right.
But its right and I am right.
And its right that you are wrong.

(this is how discussing "gameplay itself" looks like with people who do not argument using stats or replays. This is how this very thread looks like.


If you are incapable of identifying and explaining a problem, you are incapable of fixing it and no amount of theorycraft will change that.


Are they tho?
You are not providing arguments of your own and if you wanted to link all the previous threads in one place, you could've used links.

Also, players disagreed with you, you disregarded them and deflected ACTUAL ARGUMENTS.
This thread is pointless, because you're hopeless and there is nothing to discuss based on what you've written in the op.

Its a cry/rant thread, not balance one.


@Moderation
Whatever happened to that rule that prohibited having a threat in balance section if OP doesn't use evidence or stats?


What kind of replay do you want? The issues I listed are present in pretty much any late game Soviet game you'll find on youtube. It's not a specific issue. I can't link previous balance threads. No good player posts here because they get attacked like this immediately. Who did I disregard? I reacted to every response from what I can tell.
23 Sep 2020, 14:00 PM
#68
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:56 PMgbem

why?

OKW and ost mines aswell


this would make the zis an underwhelming AT gun... you could just either increase cooldown or make the zis more expensive...


the 7 man upgrade isnt even as good as LMG42s/m1919/BAR/Bren/stg but sure lets drive a stake through it and remove conscripts out of the game completely..



slightly wont cut it... just make it a 6 man MG42 with deathloop and it should be balanced (as deathloop cancels out the 6 man advantage)




1. Because sandbags on mainline inf lead to static gameplay and render actual cover irrelevant.
2. maybe OKW mines as well
3. Making ZIS more expensive would be a much bigger nerf.
4. Maxim has been considered broken in the past with higher supression
23 Sep 2020, 14:08 PM
#69
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 14:00 PMGiaA

1. Because sandbags on mainline inf lead to static gameplay and render actual cover irrelevant.

i really disagree with this statement... there are points/maps/areas where cover is not present... this would make holding such territory really difficult promoting an offense only gameplay... defensive play needs to be useful aswell...

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 14:00 PMGiaA

2. maybe OKW mines as well

just make all mines pricier at this point


jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 14:00 PMGiaA

3. Making ZIS more expensive would be a much bigger nerf.


removing its barrage would be the bigger nerf

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 14:00 PMGiaA

4. Maxim has been considered broken in the past with higher supression


do you know why the old maxim was broken? it had nothing to do with suppression or 6 man...

rather it was because
1. conscripts back then were even shittier
2. penals werent strong back then
3. the maxim was 240 points
4. the maxim had decent suppression (between the current MG34 and MG42)
but most importantly of all
5. the maxim had 1 second setup and pack time
23 Sep 2020, 14:29 PM
#70
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 13:00 PMGiaA




I just love how 5 and 8 are the same, 1 is the only buff to allies, 9 is a buff to all and 7 being the only other OKW nerf. The rest are (5 of them) are Ostheer nerfs. The original post clearly indicated you favor OKW.
It's like "I don't play ostheer that often, especially not with those units, so nerf them to the ground, I don't care."
In the meantime USF and UKF grab some popcorn and enjoy watching the drama. :P
23 Sep 2020, 14:32 PM
#71
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2



I just love how 5 and 8 are the same, 1 is the only buff to allies, 9 is a buff to all and 7 being the only other OKW nerf. The rest are (5 of them) are Ostheer nerfs. The original post clearly indicated you favor OKW.
It's like "I don't play ostheer that often, especially not with those units, so nerf them to the ground, I don't care."
In the meantime USF and UKF grab some popcorn and enjoy watching the drama. :P


I favor USF. My favorite faction by far :) It's funny how I receive all these ad hominem arguments when I'm the one who should be making them.

Also 5 and 8 are not the same. The fact that you can't differentiate the two speaks volumes. FHT=Flame Halftrack, Flak HT=OKW Flak truck form t1 :)
23 Sep 2020, 14:35 PM
#72
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

How is this at page 4 without being locked?
23 Sep 2020, 14:37 PM
#73
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

How is this at page 4 without being locked?


Why should it be locked? I'm making serious arguments.
23 Sep 2020, 14:45 PM
#75
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2020, 14:37 PMGiaA


Why should it be locked? I'm making serious arguments.

They might be serious to you, but they are all trash whine complaints that are baseless on anything but feels. I'll admit I didn't read past the 2nd page of "nuh uh it's trues" vs hard numbers countering but it's a waste
23 Sep 2020, 14:49 PM
#76
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

I challenge anyone in this thread to beat my soviets.

All I can say is that people should take the behaviour of people in this thread as an example for why this forum is dead. None of my arguments are adressed. I'm not saying I'm 100% correct, there are plenty of counter arguments but all that happens are weird meta ad hominem attacks.
23 Sep 2020, 15:00 PM
#77
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

You can post replays instead of pushing people into challenges? You have no real argument or discussion, just a list of things you don't like.

I got things I don't like either when I am facing soviets, but i know as OST player a ton of things that the soviets don't like as well and I just use that.
23 Sep 2020, 15:05 PM
#78
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

You can post replays instead of pushing people into challenges? You have no real argument or discussion, just a list of things you don't like.

I got things I don't like either when I am facing soviets, but i know a ton of things that the soviets don't like as well.
I have given an honest and serious response to every single argument made in this thread. I'm not creating textwalls of theorycrafting and I was interested in an actual discussion that goes beyond fanboy accusations.
23 Sep 2020, 15:07 PM
#79
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Well, then just disagree with others mate. In my opinion, I disagree with you too, and I agree with other lads responses in this thread. A lot of things you said don't line up, and you are missing out on a lot of things that make the game go round, and you ignore unit stats. The only valid thing is the T70, but every faction has some cutting edge unit perfect for a short time. If you don't like the responses or if the responses are not top notch to your demands, you can always try to get your point across in other communities. What else do you feel we can do? We're not gonna change the game just to accommodate your wishes.

23 Sep 2020, 15:13 PM
#80
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

also the T-70 is whats gluing the soviets togther since (unless theyre using airborne) they literally cannot compete with axis infantry the moment they get weapon upgrades...
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