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WC 51 Changes

Would you rather increase its price or nerf its power?
Option Distribution Votes
7%
31%
21%
5%
36%
If its power would be nerfed should it rather be its early game or its late game power?
Option Distribution Votes
38%
28%
21%
13%
If its earlygamepower should be nerfed, then which change should be made?
Option Distribution Votes
12%
20%
0%
7%
5%
24%
22%
10%
Total votes: 122
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
22 Aug 2020, 08:28 AM
#1
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

So in a recent thread about this unit a lot of people , high ranking ones included, agreed that this unit was heavily Overperforming ( especially in early game ) and that changes need to be made. So here is a poll about those changes.
22 Aug 2020, 10:11 AM
#2
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Remove the arty and lower the health so it dies to a schu mine. No further nerf needed.
22 Aug 2020, 14:58 PM
#3
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Remove the arty and lower the health so it dies to a schu mine. No further nerf needed.

I don't really think the arty change is necessary per say. It's so late game it's almost meaningless. I'd sooner it stay just so that if a player does keep one around it provides some value. It's odd, I'll give you that, but what makes the unit strong it is not. Be kinda like removing the demo on CE because they are too cheap to replace.
22 Aug 2020, 15:13 PM
#4
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148

only OP when it carrying smg troop and raping enemies around the map.

replace artillery with scout mode similar to SU-85 focus sight ,immobile + weapon disable + camouflage

combo with mark target.
22 Aug 2020, 17:37 PM
#5
avatar of Flying Dustbin

Posts: 270 | Subs: 1

Maybe make the gun cost 60 munitions instead of 45
The same change they did to the airdropped SVTs.

Late game abilities aren't a problem, more light vehicles should have late game abilities.
23 Aug 2020, 06:12 AM
#6
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 774

If anything must be changed, remove the crew; the WC51 is fine and if anything its the other ultra-lights in the game which are terrible and have 0 presence beyond the first 3-5minutes of the game. The Kubelwagen comes in second place since it has shared vet, but even that is basically still useless. The M3A1 is probably the worst.

Removing the crew would make sense on many levels. Replace the driver model with a rifleman model, 50 cal upgrade gunner model with a MG crew model.

I can't believe people still bitch about such minute things on this forum. Literally a drive to murder things in this game that are actually cool and good to make room for more mindless late-game heavy tank crutching (sooner and sooner). I'm going to go away for a few more months and hopefully forget about this horrible forum in the mean time.
23 Aug 2020, 08:01 AM
#7
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2

5-10 fuel cost, nerf hp
23 Aug 2020, 10:55 AM
#8
avatar of RollingStone

Posts: 173

Same HP as kubel, nerf MG performance and up the MP price. So it would become literally kubel on steroids.
23 Aug 2020, 11:32 AM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13263 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Aug 2020, 16:32 PMVipper
I would test the following:

Cost the same or even a slight decrease

Now has shared veterancy

Can now fire flares

Crew removed/mark target removed/155 barrage removed

Range to 35

Gun upgrade removed passenger automatically crew HMG

Passengers do not die on destruction only suppressed maybe take some damage

Can now be "Withdraw and Refit" for a M3
23 Aug 2020, 22:52 PM
#10
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 883

Same HP as kubel, nerf MG performance and up the MP price. So it would become literally kubel on steroids.


No, that's just a more expensive Kubel.

Best option remove upgrade cost for MG. Have it deploy with an MG already. That would justify a cost increase to 250 MP.
23 Aug 2020, 23:10 PM
#11
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2020, 22:52 PMCODGUY


No, that's just a more expensive Kubel.



Didn't know Kubel can transport troops, self repair , deploy arty and use mark the target



jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2020, 22:52 PMCODGUY

Best option remove upgrade cost for MG. Have it deploy with an MG already. That would justify a cost increase to 250 MP.


This is not even a cost increase but instead a decrease. One ammo is worth way more than just about one manpower
24 Aug 2020, 03:41 AM
#12
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 883



Didn't know Kubel can transport troops, self repair , deploy arty and use mark the target





This is not even a cost increase but instead a decrease. One ammo is worth way more than just about one manpower


Maybe...who cares? Of all the units to complain about this is probably the dumbest one. It starts it's life as an unarmed paper vehicle against factions with readily available AT. If it's a problem for you I don't know what to say except lol.

I have sat back and watched this faction try to compete with one hand tied behind It's back for 3 years now. And every time some little tweak is made to try to even the odds it gets almost immediately reversed. It's just hilarious at this point. Maybe two patches ago was the only time Brtis took the title from USF as worst faction. But hey, if the community wants USF to be garbage then so be it.
24 Aug 2020, 04:36 AM
#13
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 03:41 AMCODGUY


Maybe...who cares? Of all the units to complain about this is probably the dumbest one. It starts it's life as an unarmed paper vehicle against factions with readily available AT. If it's a problem for you I don't know what to say except lol.

I have sat back and watched this faction try to compete with one hand tied behind It's back for 3 years now. And every time some little tweak is made to try to even the odds it gets almost immediately reversed. It's just hilarious at this point. Maybe two patches ago was the only time Brtis took the title from USF as worst faction. But hey, if the community wants USF to be garbage then so be it.

Would reducing the elefant's AI help the usf prosper? I think we're neglecting the obvious balance direction right in front of out face by not addressing this travesty to balance. It should at least be on par with the jp4 and su85 if not as low as the Jackson (because of its range advantage) how do you feel about the elefants AI and how it effects the usf balance?
24 Aug 2020, 08:02 AM
#14
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

+40 mp
remove crew
reduce pen on the MG to the Kubel level

However, seeing how the ML is going not alot of players are picking the mechanized company. Seems this unit is less OP than we might suggest.

imo
24 Aug 2020, 09:16 AM
#15
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1482

+40 mp
remove crew
reduce pen on the MG to the Kubel level

However, seeing how the ML is going not alot of players are picking the mechanized company. Seems this unit is less OP than we might suggest.

imo


It's not OP at all. A slight price increase could be in order but if it were as OP as some claim, picking mechanized would be a no brainer as it would lead to ez wins. Until you get a series of complete stomps from one faction/commander, it's more-less well balanced.... or you could try searching for things to complain about all day. Couldn't care less.
24 Aug 2020, 09:39 AM
#16
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

I'm playing Ost and I still haven't faced a single good wc51 enemy. Everyone says the unit is OP but nobody knows how to use it and everyone wants to nerf it. LOL
24 Aug 2020, 09:42 AM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

I'm playing Ost and I still haven't faced a single good wc51 enemy. Everyone says the unit is OP but nobody knows how to use it and everyone wants to nerf it. LOL

That's because pretty much all of last 2 years of "red unit OP" is not based on units performance, but one game or clip where usually a top player was lucky with/unlucky against.

That's why people constantly claim everything OP without being able to produce even low level replay with evidence.
24 Aug 2020, 09:49 AM
#18
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I don't really think the arty change is necessary per say. It's so late game it's almost meaningless.


That's a compelling reason to remove it in my book. It's an out-of-place ability added for bad reasons that the unit barely uses and doesn't need.


jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2020, 22:52 PMCODGUY
No, that's just a more expensive Kubel.

Best option remove upgrade cost for MG. Have it deploy with an MG already. That would justify a cost increase to 250 MP.


You mean buff the shit out of it?
24 Aug 2020, 10:12 AM
#19
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

It's not OP at all. Snip


Exactly my point, however the change I purposed was more because I once had my WC51 kill 2 OKW 221's in a front to front engagement. Now the 4v4 playerquality ain't that high but it felt stupid to win 2v1 without serious damage.
24 Aug 2020, 10:39 AM
#20
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



It's not OP at all. [...] Couldn't care less.


jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 09:42 AMKatitof

That's because pretty much all of last 2 years of "red unit OP" is not based on units performance, but one game or clip where usually a top player was lucky with/unlucky against.

That's why people constantly claim everything OP without being able to produce even low level replay with evidence.


"I dont understand this discussion, it is one of the most overperforming single units in 1v1.
Lower its range, take away its late game abilities and it would still be viable" - A player who is rank 3 with USF in 1 vs 1 ( and top 5 with every other faction )

But ofc someone who doesn't play axis and someone who doesn't even play the game at all feel the need to defend the WC 51 ...
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