Login

russian armor

State of OKW in the meta

PAGES (13)down
1 Sep 2020, 17:59 PM
#241
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

The original statement started with red cover while the test were done in neutral cover.
1 Sep 2020, 18:44 PM
#242
avatar of oootto92

Posts: 177

OK hows this idea for quicker Obers:

Split the current total schwer cost into two steps:
1. Step is to unlock the schwer tier in your hq which unlocks building obers from HQ and allows you to place down schwer
2. Tier is just to deploy the schwer. The gun is ready to shoot and you are able to build panzers from get go. This would also mean removing the useless panzer authorization upgrade.

The Tank timings stay the exact same but you can get obers much more quickly.
1 Sep 2020, 19:24 PM
#243
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

The original statement started with red cover while the test were done in neutral cover.


OK so I'm not crazy. I'm glad I didn't pull neg cover out of my ass.

Obers losing to ptrs penals in neg cover I don't particularly see an issue with for the reasons I was arguing but in neutral they shouldn't be pulling wins. Not sure how to fix that though to be honest.
1 Sep 2020, 19:31 PM
#244
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



OK so I'm not crazy. I'm glad I didn't pull neg cover out of my ass.

Obers losing to ptrs penals in neg cover I don't particularly see an issue with for the reasons I was arguing but in neutral they shouldn't be pulling wins. Not sure how to fix that though to be honest.


If one wanted to fix it one should start by following the PF design and have them start without SVTs and having to choose between SVT or PTRS.
1 Sep 2020, 19:35 PM
#245
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2020, 19:31 PMVipper


If one wanted to fix it one should start by following the PF design and have them start without SVTs and having to choose between SVT or PTRS.

I agree with that design philosophy regardless of the current discussion. great AI into easy AT is poor design. At least pgrens have to think long and hard about it.
1 Sep 2020, 20:17 PM
#246
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093


I agree with that design philosophy regardless of the current discussion. great AI into easy AT is poor design. At least pgrens have to think long and hard about it.


But AT penals are worthless beyond the early game unless they get a lucky satchel off.

Pzgrens are absolute AT beasts, hence why the change is more polarising.

1 Sep 2020, 22:32 PM
#247
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2020, 20:17 PMGrim


But AT penals are worthless beyond the early game unless they get a lucky satchel off.

Pzgrens are absolute AT beasts, hence why the change is more polarising.



In 1v1 comparacent yes.

If you add mark target or guards pin or mines, they are still quite good.
1 Sep 2020, 23:46 PM
#248
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2020, 20:17 PMGrim


But AT penals are worthless beyond the early game unless they get a lucky satchel off.

Pzgrens are absolute AT beasts, hence why the change is more polarising.


AT penals are defensive and far from useless late game. They make it so the enemy will not dive you. Plus they have low but steady AT DPS due to deflection damage. They have different roles but neither should retain their capacity to fight infantry, certainly not elite infantry, when upgraded into AT
2 Sep 2020, 13:00 PM
#249
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093


AT penals are defensive and far from useless late game. They make it so the enemy will not dive you. Plus they have low but steady AT DPS due to deflection damage. They have different roles but neither should retain their capacity to fight infantry, certainly not elite infantry, when upgraded into AT


The AT satchel is their only saving grace for the late game. They can do small amounts of damage that can add up but to utilise their ptrs rifles they have to be stationary/in the area for a long time. Making them easy pray for any enemy with rocket arty.
2 Sep 2020, 19:21 PM
#250
avatar of SgtJonson

Posts: 143

for a ... long time?

cries in Sturmpio panzerschreck - reload
2 Sep 2020, 19:26 PM
#251
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2020, 13:00 PMGrim


The AT satchel is their only saving grace for the late game. They can do small amounts of damage that can add up but to utilise their ptrs rifles they have to be stationary/in the area for a long time. Making them easy pray for any enemy with rocket arty.


Once a vehicle is snared (button, sticky, etc) they can deal quite a lot of damage with their ptrs and on top of that they can add a lot of additional damage with a satchel. This will often finish off any vehicle. They are very powerful in combination with other Soviet AT options.
2 Sep 2020, 19:42 PM
#252
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



Once a vehicle is snared (button, sticky, etc) they can deal quite a lot of damage with their ptrs and on top of that they can add a lot of additional damage with a satchel. This will often finish off any vehicle. They are very powerful in combination with other Soviet AT options.


That is true, but in most games (teamgames mostly) they will go against Panthers, which, even when snared are quite fast reverse (you can't chase down a snared Panther with zooks or piats or PTSRs even in reverse). If they satchel snare a P4 and the likes, then they have a good chance of killing it if you have 2 penals with PTSR (2x ptsr can't really kill any medium tanks, 4x can with a satchel snare) with ZiS or tank..

Penals are late game supporting units more than assaulting. Great, like you said, with other AT options.
2 Sep 2020, 20:25 PM
#253
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2020, 13:00 PMGrim


The AT satchel is their only saving grace for the late game. They can do small amounts of damage that can add up but to utilise their ptrs rifles they have to be stationary/in the area for a long time. Making them easy pray for any enemy with rocket arty.


Most MP AT is vulnerable to rocket arty.... That's what rocket arty is for.

They are defensive and are vulnerable to the same things defensive units are. Late game they protect your other harder hitting AT. plinking away and stopping your case mate TDs from getting circle strafed.
2 Sep 2020, 22:22 PM
#254
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093



Most MP AT is vulnerable to rocket arty.... That's what rocket arty is for.

They are defensive and are vulnerable to the same things defensive units are. Late game they protect your other harder hitting AT. plinking away and stopping your case mate TDs from getting circle strafed.


Well if we are going to be pedantic, all infantry and support weapons are vulnerable to rocket arty XD

But with shreks/bazookas the initial volley can still do decent damage and you can keep moving while they reload. If you move around with penals nothing would ever get damaged.

3 Sep 2020, 00:06 AM
#255
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 213

The timing of Obers overall is just terrible for what they offer compared to other elite infantry. From my 2v2 experience its acceptable when you rush battlegroup into t4. But as soon as you go mech with luchs/puma/stuka you have to use call-in inf as an ober replacement. I just dont see a reason for obers to be in t4, while other comparable inf comes at cp2/3.

Mechanized or battlegroup could unlock Obers and the second built truck unlocks the lmg upgrade. This seems to be a more reasonable timing for me. If thats too soon, atleast make the lmg upgrade cheaper or free and the Stg obers a seperate unit. That would give the stg ability more flavor too.
9 Sep 2020, 16:35 PM
#256
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

The timing of Obers overall is just terrible for what they offer compared to other elite infantry. From my 2v2 experience its acceptable when you rush battlegroup into t4. But as soon as you go mech with luchs/puma/stuka you have to use call-in inf as an ober replacement. I just dont see a reason for obers to be in t4, while other comparable inf comes at cp2/3.

Mechanized or battlegroup could unlock Obers and the second built truck unlocks the lmg upgrade. This seems to be a more reasonable timing for me. If thats too soon, atleast make the lmg upgrade cheaper or free and the Stg obers a seperate unit. That would give the stg ability more flavor too.

Battlegroup would make the Obers come too early

A better solution imho would be to make Obers unlock either with Mechanized or by setting up the Schewer, with the latter being necessary for the MG upgrade
9 Sep 2020, 17:27 PM
#257
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518


Battlegroup would make the Obers come too early

A better solution imho would be to make Obers unlock either with Mechanized or by setting up the Schewer, with the latter being necessary for the MG upgrade


My proposal would be to change the Schwere cost to 80 / 40 as opposed to 60 / 60 and make it so the Mg 34 isn't locked behind Flak Upgrade anymore
9 Sep 2020, 17:42 PM
#258
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



My proposal would be to change the Schwere cost to 80 / 40 as opposed to 60 / 60 and make it so the Mg 34 isn't locked behind Flak Upgrade anymore

Just apply Sander/Miragefla changes, especially with okw teching
9 Sep 2020, 21:46 PM
#259
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351


Just apply Sander/Miragefla changes, especially with okw teching

Yep. All are good.
PAGES (13)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

394 users are online: 3 members and 391 guests
immogutachteressen, Farlon, empirescurropt
12 posts in the last 24h
38 posts in the last week
92 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44643
Welcome our newest member, Leiliqu96
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM