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State of OKW in the meta

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8 Aug 2020, 19:28 PM
#61
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 173

Volks should be given sweepers upgrade (not possible to holster) - this would balance it out. The sweepers would make them repair and spot for mines. Enough to balance back the whole faction imo.


Or OKW can just have repair\sweeper squad limited to 1 awaible after any HQ set up, just like UKF was given Medics who are in their nature are pointless in their idea and just used as additional cheap capping squad.
8 Aug 2020, 19:56 PM
#62
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1305



Or OKW can just have repair\sweeper squad limited to 1 awaible after any HQ set up, just like UKF was given Medics who are in their nature are pointless in their idea and just used as additional cheap capping squad.

I had a similar idea - to give them ost pios bought from the hq after 2 trucks are set up.
8 Aug 2020, 20:17 PM
#63
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4365 | Subs: 1

They still are very squishy. I think it does not need much effort to delete them from the field. Way too vulnerable for a unit that you need to cqc and repairs at the same time.

As said, when they need to repair their time as assault units, aside from the direst of times, is over. It's actually a pretty good transition. The entire point is needing to decide how best to use your limited resources. It's one of the more interesting faction designs that actually also translates into interesting gameplay.
8 Aug 2020, 21:29 PM
#64
avatar of Grim

Posts: 904

Volks should be given sweepers upgrade (not possible to holster) - this would balance it out. The sweepers would make them repair and spot for mines. Enough to balance back the whole faction imo.


Yeah, we saw your first post saying the exact same thing.

So long as it locked out the stg I guess it wouldn't be too obscene.
8 Aug 2020, 21:48 PM
#65
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4594

IMO, unless Volks receive a combat boost (which I am not in favor of), they should be given more utility, specifically speaking: a smoke grenade

They tried smoke on main with Riflemen and it turned out to be broken as hell, completely nullified all machine gun play. Besides, Obersoldaten and Fallschirmjager both have smoke grenades, and the LeIG 18 has a smoke barrage like every mortar-type weapon.


When its employed as CQC and when it have most impact, there is nothing on field that would even remotely threaten it.

In late game its usually busy repairing, planting mines or capping as its no longer needed on the front lines due to appearance of obers.

Sometimes I wonder if replacing their StG's with Panzergrenadier model at Vet 4 would help them stay slightly more relevant.


Volks should be given sweepers upgrade (not possible to holster) - this would balance it out. The sweepers would make them repair and spot for mines. Enough to balance back the whole faction imo.

That would make mines useless against OKW, which I am not in favor of because mines win games.
8 Aug 2020, 21:51 PM
#66
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 173


As said, when they need to repair their time as assault units, aside from the direst of times, is over. It's actually a pretty good transition. The entire point is needing to decide how best to use your limited resources. It's one of the more interesting faction designs that actually also translates into interesting gameplay.


Problem is Sturmpios is that they too god damn important. If you lose them, then your economy is blowen away completly.

And its easy to lose them, because their rec acc is sligtly better then grens one, and we know how grens drop models out of cover or approach.

Point is, whole OKW economy, healing (if you went mech) and early-mid game shouldnt depend on 1 300 MP unit. Who is also anti-tank, who is also repair unit, who also have to sweep and lay mines.

If you managed not to lose them, then yeah they scale, but its not always an easy task to perform and OKW is way too dependant on them.
8 Aug 2020, 22:11 PM
#67
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1305

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Aug 2020, 21:29 PMGrim

So long as it locked out the stg I guess it wouldn't be too obscene.

Yeah. One model would have a sweeper and it would lock out stgs. I guess one slot could be empty if they wanted to pick up one weapon. This would fill a lot of gaps for okw: repairs, mine voulnerability of elite squads, repurchasing pios, etc. They would lose 20% of their Kar dps so nobody would spam that.
8 Aug 2020, 22:16 PM
#68
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1305



That would make mines useless against OKW, which I am not in favor of because mines win games.

Now mines are too potent against them as stpios are the only unit that can sweep. They also have those 4 men elite squads that lose 50% of their dps and manpower after they hit a mine. This would balance out the odds rather than make mines useless.
8 Aug 2020, 22:19 PM
#69
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2904 | Subs: 1

I'd allow sweepers with repair function to be purchased by volks (one model stops shooting). This would not buff volks combat performance but would buff the okw as a whole faction and would make them less vulnerable to losing the sturms. It would be enough to balance OKW against the allied factions.


This has to be the dumbest thing I've read this past month.
8 Aug 2020, 23:27 PM
#70
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1305



This has to be the dumbest thing I've read this past month.

1. OKW has a repair problem as only expensive sturms can do it outside the base.
2. OKW has a mines problem as only expensive sturms can sweep so OKW often loses expensive, often elite, squad models to mines when sidecapping, for example. They can't build such expensive units just for sweeping when other factions can pay as little as 170 - 210 mapower to do the same.
3. OKW has to repair their truck and again only expensive sturms can do it. Agin often they are to busy to do that or simply bleed too much when barraged doing it.

Such solution would solve those problems and allow OKW to bleed less manpower to mines (or when they need to replace the lost sturms) and also give a bit more field presence to their tanks/vehicles. It is possible that a bit less manpower bleed plus more field presence for the vehicles will actually buff OKW more than You expect.
9 Aug 2020, 00:14 AM
#71
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 302


1. OKW has a repair problem as only expensive sturms can do it outside the base.
2. OKW has a mines problem as only expensive sturms can sweep so OKW often loses expensive, often elite, squad models to mines when sidecapping, for example. They can't build such expensive units just for sweeping when other factions can pay as little as 170 - 210 mapower to do the same.
3. OKW has to repair their truck and again only expensive sturms can do it. Agin often they are to busy to do that or simply bleed too much when barraged doing it.

Such solution would solve those problems and allow OKW to bleed less manpower to mines (or when they need to replace the lost sturms) and also give a bit more field presence to their tanks/vehicles. It is possible that a bit less manpower bleed plus more field presence for the vehicles will actually buff OKW more than You expect.


Those same expensive sturms are pretty OP in the opening game, if you lose them at start, that's your problem. OKW also has repair drones so...
Same as Soviets and USF, CE and Echelons can only sweep. Again, you get one at start, so you're not paying anything. While other units are less expensive, they are also much less combat ready.

Your trucks will get barraged if you put them close to the frontline, again, your problem.
You want to put volks with repairing? So, OKW, which has the best tanks in the game and non doctrinal super heavy would also have spammable units early on to fight and later on to repair. Basically you could play aggressively with the tanks knowing that you will have a super fast repair.

Get a grip with reality achpawel and play some custom games with allies or become better with OKW. Get a grip.
9 Aug 2020, 00:23 AM
#72
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 364



snip


In all fairness he's got way more games played of both sides of factions than you do.
9 Aug 2020, 00:41 AM
#73
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1305


Post.

Most of the stuff U wrote just shows that U simply play only one faction.

Most good players say that okw is in a very bad spot now. My idea would be to finally stop the power creep and look for unsolved issues elsewhere. Okw and their repairs is imho sth that should be looked into. Right now I'm experimenting with going battlegroup and not mechanised build orders. Spending 300 mp into additional engineer to help with keeping your vehicles operational will set U back against similarly skilled players. USF, for example, will get their free squads for teching on top of their crews. Playing as OKW you have to be many ranks higher on the ladder to have spare 300mp to get another engineer (even if U still have the original one). If U invest in repairs You may need to rely on 2-4 squads fewer on the front. This will usually allow Ur opponent to push U off the map.

Can U show Ur player card?
9 Aug 2020, 01:21 AM
#74
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 173


So, OKW, which has the best tanks in the game and non doctrinal super heavy.

I keep seeing this. What best tanks? Panther is the same as Ostpanther, PIV is being just slightly armored against mediums for additional 30 fuel, JP being german version of SU85 without self spotting.

Best AI LV? T-70. Best mobile suppresion ? M5 or M15A1. Puma is probably best AT LV, while AEC is close second.

Memetiger is only here to secure wictory, he will never ever win you game if allies didnt fucked up or have more then 1 braincell alive.

Or they have 5 lvl and even have it strate of the bat after 1 kill thats why they are by defo best.


Basically you could play aggressively with the tanks knowing that you will have a super fast repair.

Yeah say this to 2+ AT guns or TDs.


Get a grip with reality achpawel and play some custom games with allies or become better with OKW. Get a grip.

I think you are the one who should play NOT only allies, because what you saying is getting radicilios more and more.

If Katitof wasnt only trolling ppl who is more on the Axis side of the aurgument, he would have roasted your statements brutaly, I would have love to see this.
9 Aug 2020, 02:22 AM
#75
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4365 | Subs: 1


I keep seeing this. What best tanks? Panther is the same as Ostpanther, PIV is being just slightly armored against mediums for additional 30 fuel, JP being german version of SU85 without self spotting.

Best AI LV? T-70. Best mobile suppresion ? M5 or M15A1. Puma is probably best AT LV, while AEC is close second.

Memetiger is only here to secure wictory, he will never ever win you game if allies didnt fucked up or have more then 1 braincell alive.

Or they have 5 lvl and even have it strate of the bat after 1 kill thats why they are by defo best.


Yeah say this to 2+ AT guns or TDs.


I think you are the one who should play NOT only allies, because what you saying is getting radicilios more and more.

If Katitof wasnt only trolling ppl who is more on the Axis side of the aurgument, he would have roasted your statements brutaly, I would have love to see this.


okw has both effective and flexible light vehcle play as well as medium/ heavy play where the lowest armoured vehcle has 230 armour
pak walls are hard countered with the stuka and all allied TDS are countered by the JP$ (jackson less so because reasons but will still lose in a slugging match)
and of course you always have the option of a heavy tank. it might not always be a good option, but you have it- even if only as a juicy target to get their TDs to sit and shoot while you counter them with something else.

to say the okw armour isnt the best around is simply false. they have great options and great performance as well as great scaling and can benifit from pop free repairs, when combined with sturms and sweepers gets them back onto the field very fast. you pay a lot with okw, but you get much more. you are also very well rewarded for keeping your shit alive, like your engineers for example....
9 Aug 2020, 04:06 AM
#76
avatar of Nachtmahr667

Posts: 38



IMO, unless Volks receive a combat boost (which I am not in favor of), they should be given more utility, specifically speaking: a smoke grenade

They tried smoke on main with Riflemen and it turned out to be broken as hell, completely nullified all machine gun play. Besides, Obersoldaten and Fallschirmjager both have smoke grenades, and the LeIG 18 has a smoke barrage like every mortar-type weapon.


Well, yes, but:

1. The riflemen smoke wasn't eliminated. It was just moved to the REs. Thus it is still there and available as early as in the early game.

2. Part of the problem was also that riflemen deal a lot of damage up close. Volks not so much. Thus smoke was a lot more of a force multiplier for riflemen than it would be for Volks.

3. Riflemen smoke was/is a rifle grenade and has a far larger range than OKW's handheld smoke grenades. Thus it is misleading to compare those two grenades as though they were the same, irrespective of who wields them.

4. Unlike every mortar-type weapon, the leIG is not available in the early game AND forces you into a certain tech that precludes a Puma, which many consider to be an absolute necessity for the midgame.

5. Obersoldaten come late AND need Vet 1 AND have a very short range AND can't even advance through their smoke. Fallschirmjagers don't come late, but are only in one(!) specific doctrine, and all the rest applies to them as well. Honestly, bringing them up seems like clutching at straws.

9 Aug 2020, 07:52 AM
#77
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2488 | Subs: 4

PIV is being just slightly armored against mediums for additional 30 fuel


The OKW Panzer IV also has significantly better scatter and veterancy compared to the Ostheer P4.
9 Aug 2020, 08:28 AM
#78
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1305


Those same expensive sturms are pretty OP in the opening game, if you lose them at start, that's your problem. OKW also has repair drones so...

It is enough to engage them from range and they die like flies. Even cons are a threat to them. If you make them charge You they just die. So yes, they are powerful, but not as powerful if You know how to handle them.

Same as Soviets and USF, CE and Echelons can only sweep. Again, you get one at start, so you're not paying anything. While other units are less expensive, they are also much less combat ready.

It changes completely when you are in mid-lategame. Sturms will probably never really fight and then crews, echelons, sappers and even CEs are just a better option due to their smaller bleed and to being more disposable. Echelons and CEs can do many other things such as sidecapping and supporting pushes, laying mines and sweeping. Echelons will be used as bazooka squads. OKW sturms won't be able to do all these things at the same time - they will become the most expensive repair squad. The discrepancy is actually huge.

Your trucks will get barraged if you put them close to the frontline, again, your problem.

The UKF, for example, will repair their structures more cheaply and bleed less. You don't seem to understand a simple fact that other factions can make the same "mistakes" with much less deadly consequences. That is the balance issue.

You want to put volks with repairing? So, OKW, which has the best tanks in the game and non doctrinal super heavy would also have spammable units early on to fight and later on to repair. Basically you could play aggressively with the tanks knowing that you will have a super fast repair.

Tanks are not the best! That is a myth. The real problem is that tanks such as panther have to be in range of tank destroyers and at guns to inflict any damage as panthers have inferior range. Their healh pool gets depleted very quickly. That is why OKW will need repairs more than allied factions who just outrange axis in general and can deal damage being out of range themselves.

Get a grip with reality achpawel and play some custom games with allies or become better with OKW. Get a grip.

I play all factions and actually that is something U can write to yourself I'm afraid. I find playing allies so much easier. Personal attacks change nothing, just show lack of arguments.
9 Aug 2020, 08:30 AM
#79
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1305



The OKW Panzer IV also has significantly better scatter and veterancy compared to the Ostheer P4.

Yes... but it gets eaten by tank destroyers without significant difference. You also pay more for it. But honestly the problem is that two Jacksons will be repaired in the nick of time while a damaged p4 will need more time than both of them. If OKW has two tanks and, for example, one with a damaged engine it is generally gg. Allies will usually manage to save such tanks much more often.
9 Aug 2020, 10:54 AM
#80
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 364


Most of the stuff U wrote just shows that U simply play only one faction.

Most good players say that okw is in a very bad spot now. My idea would be to finally stop the power creep and look for unsolved issues elsewhere. Okw and their repairs is imho sth that should be looked into. Right now I'm experimenting with going battlegroup and not mechanised build orders. Spending 300 mp into additional engineer to help with keeping your vehicles operational will set U back against similarly skilled players. USF, for example, will get their free squads for teching on top of their crews. Playing as OKW you have to be many ranks higher on the ladder to have spare 300mp to get another engineer (even if U still have the original one). If U invest in repairs You may need to rely on 2-4 squads fewer on the front. This will usually allow Ur opponent to push U off the map.

Can U show Ur player card?


his card

not that hard to find, he gives us daily updates of where he is on the ladder
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